Transcript of Food & Restaurant Podcast – A Funeral For Retail

Transcript of episode A Funeral For Retail or read the companion article by Adam Pierno.

[00:00:03] Adam Pierno: All right. Welcome back to another episode of Food and Restaurant Marketing. I am Adam Pierno. With me again is the effervescent and extremely happy, Daniel Thaddeus Santy.
[00:00:19] Daniel Santy: Hello, everybody. Good to be here again today.
[00:00:22] Adam: Dan is in a great mood because we have been attending a funeral for the past year, that just seems to never end. Last time, we talked about the funeral that has been going on for 10 years for television.
Today, we’re talking about the funeral. We’re both wearing black for retail and specifically shopping centers, malls if you remember those. It’s just that it’s sad there’s a dirge playing, there’s a black limousine out front, a hearse. What do you think sir?
[00:00:53] Daniel: We just put a outlet mall in the hearse, there’s a processional that will happen. [laughs]
[00:01:00] Adam: You know what? I wonder– I’ll bet you outlet malls are okay.
[00:01:04] Daniel: Yes, you’re probably right. Well, I have a theory if you want to kick this off really-
[00:01:08] Adam: Let’s go, yes.
[00:01:11] Daniel: -with speed, is I have a theory about malls in terms of their revolution because I think you’re right about they’re not dying, they’re evolving. We talked about that. There are going to be two successful mall types going forward and I think outlets will be one.
[00:01:29] Adam: Extreme discount, extreme value.
[00:01:30] Daniel: Exactly, because everybody likes cheap blank.
[00:01:36] Adam: Right, you could say the word. [Editor’s note: we swear a lot]
[00:01:38] Daniel: Almost as much as they like free shit.
[00:01:41] Adam: I think they like cheap better than free.
[00:01:43] Daniel: Sometimes, I think you might be right. Then on the other end of the spectrum is luxury goods. I think the worlds of Louis Vuitton and I’m talking really pretty much the high-end stuff, because I think people really want– if I’m going to go in and buy a $1,600 bag, either as a gift for my wife or my girlfriend, which I don’t have currently or if a woman is going to splurge, she’s a professional and she just got a bonus and she wants to go gift herself a beautiful new purse or some luxury item, I think they want to see, feel, and touch it. Ordering it online is not the same.
[00:02:30] Adam: No, and you don’t know what the real heft of it is or what the real shape of it is until you’re holding it in your hands. If it’s a bag, leather. I think for tech goods, even for assembling this. Last time, we talked about the all-new Food and Restaurant Marketing studios, I bought almost everything on Amazon and read reviews and clicked links and then when it all got here, this very microphone that I’m speaking into now didn’t come with a cord.
[00:02:57] Daniel: Fascinating.
[00:02:58] Adam: So, then I started thinking, I went online, and I thought, “Oh, I could just order this cord.” and I was like, “You know what? I just want it today and I don’t want to mess around.” I had already had to return some things, I just wanted to go get it. So, I went and found there’s a– I was like, “I don’t even know where to go to buy this.”
[00:03:13] Daniel: Right.
[00:03:14] Adam: There’s a guitar center over there and I went in and I found a person and talked to them and asked them questions.
[00:03:19] Daniel: There you go.
[00:03:20] Adam: And got all the answers and bought the thing and it was like 13 bucks.
[00:03:23] Daniel: Yes, amazing.
[00:03:25] Adam: So, I think that part is not going away. That was a major, major, major digression.
[00:03:30] Daniel: Yes, interesting. Interesting. Again, I think all these stories are validating your theory about evolution.
[00:03:39] Adam: Yes, I don’t think what looks like today is right and I don’t think that the CNN slideshow of 12 photos of dead malls is where it’s going. The real estate’s too valuable. Somebody, either an entrepreneur or somebody that’s already existing in the retail space, will figure out how to reuse those spaces, either knocking them down or just filling those big box spaces.
[00:04:03] Daniel: More than likely [sic]– more than likely. [sic] More than likely, a few of them, and I mean this seriously, will become evangelical churches. You see that a lot where they reuse of a old movie theater.
[00:04:20] Adam: Right, and it’s a good, big, empty box.
[00:04:23] Daniel: Good, empty box that’s inexpensive to–
[00:04:25] Adam: I’ve actually thought of maybe putting a school in.
[00:04:28] Daniel: Yes, there’s another fundamental use. There’s so much going on in the charter school space.
[00:04:33] Adam: Right, they’re expanding and they’re looking for real estate in markets like ours, too. It’s hard to find.
[00:04:39] Daniel: If you think about it, retail malls typically are placed based on the residential density. That makes it viable. So, that’s actually interesting.
[00:04:50] Adam: Yes, that applies to both malls and churches.
[00:04:52] Daniel: Yes, Simon and company, if you’re listening, there’s a couple ideas for you.
[00:04:57] Adam: Yes, send the royalty checks our way. This is important because for you guys that are listening, because shopping, malls, and retail is really the major source of a lot of spontaneous restaurant traffic that pops up every day. So, as we’re watching, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’ve been seeing these headwinds in the restaurant space while we’re watching these big box major brands close and go bankrupt. They’re facing challenges and people are shopping less and then therefore, there’s pressure on any other cottage industry around that activity.
[00:05:33] Daniel: Okay, imagine if you did the math, just take the last 90 days. Every week, sometimes two or three times a week, you read the article about restaurant chain X is closing 30 stores.
[00:05:51] Adam: Wow.
[00:05:52] Daniel: Think of the implication if those 30 stores tend to be pads at these malls that we’re talking about.
[00:05:59] Adam: Right, it’s a death spiral; one feeds the other.
[00:06:01] Daniel: Exactly.
[00:06:02] Adam: Because you know what it is with retail in general is always clustered. So, when we say mall, that might be a strip mall, it might be a huge shopping center, a traditional indoor shopping mall. But the restaurant that I might stop at next to the store I might go to buy shoes and next to the bookstore that I used to go to get books or whatever else, those are all related activities and so when Fridays closes or Ruby Tuesdays closes at the mall, like at PV Mall.
[00:06:31] Daniel: Right.
[00:06:32] Adam: Well, there’s one less corner of the place I’m going to walk into and each time that mall gets less useful, and until now, if you walk into that mall, it’s deserted.
[00:06:42] Daniel: Yes, it’s kind of like what the West Valley Mall was like but now it’s complete reuse.
[00:06:51] Adam: Scary stuff. So, why is this happening? What is happening and what are the experts saying? Why is retail dying?
[00:07:00] Daniel: I will tell you right now.
[00:07:01] Adam: You have some answers for me?
[00:07:02] Daniel: Well, and you know what? Anecdotal as this may be and literally happened this morning, my lovely bride reminded me that I’ve been wanting to get a new pair of running shoes. So, I said, “All right.” I’m going online right now and we’re having a cup of coffee, I go to the place where I have a loyalty program.
[00:07:25] Adam: Right.
[00:07:26] Daniel: It’s a retail store so I could literally go in, I hate going in and here’s why because they’re vultures. I want a pair of shoes I do not want insoles. I do not want socks. I do not want a cap.
[00:07:40] Adam: Where do you go?
[00:07:42] Daniel: What’s it called, Runners? Not runners.
[00:07:44] Adam: Road Runner?
[00:07:45] Daniel: Road Runner, yes. They’re ridiculous.
[00:07:48] Adam: Sorry, Road Runner,
[00:07:49] Daniel: Yes, sorry Road Runner
[00:07:49] Adam: Maybe we’ll bleep this.
[00:07:50] Daniel: So, I’m all the way– I’ve got the cart. I’m going to checkout. Liza goes, “Why don’t I check my Amazon Prime account and see if I can get that same pair of shoes?” Because I buy the same pair of Asics every time. I love them.
[00:08:07] Adam: I’m the same way, same pair of Adidas.
[00:08:09] Daniel: She goes and they were $35 less.
[00:08:14] Adam: Holy moly.
[00:08:15] Daniel: Thirty-five dollars, same exact shoe. Now, I would venture to guess that the guy or the gal at– what’s it called, Road Runner?
[00:08:23] Adam: Yes.
[00:08:23] Daniel: Road Runner would tell me that the ones on Amazon are the 2016 model or something like that.
[00:08:27] Adam: Who gives a rats?
[00:08:28] Daniel: Right, because what did-
[00:08:29] Adam: I don’t care.
[00:08:29] Daniel: -they do between 16 and 17 to make that thing different?
[00:08:32] Adam: No, the body of the shoe, it’s with the fashion. The colors change. Who cares?
[00:08:36] Daniel: Right. Right, and so boom, abandon cart and head straight boom, and used–
[00:08:42] Adam: Wow, that’s it. Free shipping.
[00:08:45] Daniel: Free shipping and they were offering me shipping because I’m a VIP member
[00:08:48] Adam: Okay.
[00:08:49] Daniel: But still, I mean that wasn’t even enough.
[00:08:52] Adam: So, you’re saying you weren’t going to go into Road Runner, anyway?
[00:08:57] Daniel: No.
[00:08:58] Daniel: But you’re saying there was a reason now that something that made it very convenient for you and very affordable for you to buy those shoes. What was that thing? What was the name of that store?
[00:09:07] Daniel: Interweb? Amazon.
[00:09:10] Adam: Yes, exactly.
[00:09:11] Daniel: Amazon, absolutely.
[00:09:12] Adam: So, Amazon is eating everything and if it’s not Amazon, it’s a store that’s exactly like Amazon that’s in a very tight vertical that is stealing your reason to go to the store. That’s number one and we saw this going back to when we think of it, it was Christmas of ’15. I wrote an article about this. Showrooming had been a big thing, but at that time, what we found was, people would go to a store like Best Buy or they would go to a place like Road Runner, they pull out their mobile phone, they would take a picture of the thing that they wanted, they would Google the thing that they wanted, they would not buy it on their mobile device, they would go home and they would convert on their laptop.
[00:09:54] Daniel: Interesting.
[00:09:55] Adam: So, what they saw was a spike in mobile traffic going to these retail stores, but not a spike in sales and a spike from desktop-
[00:10:04] Daniel: Interesting.
[00:10:05] Adam: -in that same seasonal period. Retail was down that year. Now, we’re seeing that people have finally figured out, “Oh, I can just buy it.” I’ve been trained to either buy it on my phone, which is getting easier and easier and easier, and Amazon has [crosstalk]
[00:10:19] Daniel: Amazon has made it very easy.
[00:10:21] Adam: Yes, and Zappos and a bunch of people have figured out how to make it one click, basically. They don’t– going to the store, just like you said with Road Runner, I don’t really want to deal with– I don’t want to get sold. The experience is very rarely fun or helpful, but there’s some key times when you need to and most of the time you just say, “I just need this thing in my mail box. I think I’ll be fine. If it’s free returns, I could send it back. I don’t need to lose a half a day to go to the mall.”
[00:10:51] Daniel: Yes. I really think that these– many of these retailers like Road Runner need to do a true audit on the customer experience in store. I get that sales is the holy grail, but there’s this fine line between what feels like fake and forced and I think they’re being incented to sell socks this week to–
[00:11:20] Adam: [laughs] That’s the worst.
[00:11:22] Daniel: Right. To genuinely helping me make a good purchase decision based on my needs. It doesn’t feel like that way. It feels like the corporation’s shaping how to sell versus how to understand my needs and then find the right product for me.
[00:11:40] Adam: Right, and you don’t leave there feeling a value.
[00:11:43] Daniel: No.
[00:11:43] Adam: You leave there feeling either A; “I just got sold socks and I don’t need socks,” or B; “Why did that guy keep bringing up insoles? I told them no. All I wanted to do was try on shoes.”
[00:11:54] Daniel: Especially when I have orthotics [laughs].
[00:11:56] Adam: Right, exactly. That’s a totally different thing. They don’t know who they’re messing with. I do think that applies to the restaurant industry, doesn’t it? When I go to a restaurant, I have a lot of choice, a lot of options.
[00:12:10] Daniel: Absolutely.
[00:12:11] Adam: Tolerating service that’s– look, bad service happens. People have bad days. That’s one thing and I think people are willing to deal with that or forgive that.
[00:12:22] Daniel: Right.
[00:12:22] Adam: But mean service, or service with someone who just does not want to be there, or someone who really doesn’t care or a restaurant where you just get the idea like, “They don’t care if I’m here or not.” That’s what is putting the headwinds on the restaurant industry.
[00:12:37] Daniel: Absolutely. Maria told a great story. One of our co-workers told a great story to me this morning about– she was at this local burger brand that had opened a new location up here by our office. Their original location, which is extremely popular, is pretty far away, it’s not some place you’re going to drive to on a workday for lunch.
[00:13:03] Adam: Right, too far.
[00:13:05] Daniel: So, she gets there. You could shoot a cannon through the place; number one. Number two; the server, she said she felt that maybe he was high. She said that it was just– the service was ridiculous. Listen to this story, the ending of the story, she writes– she goes online to their customer service function on their website, she tells them what happens, and she actually says, “Listen, you can use–” I think it was Facebook. I forgot what she recommended, “To recruit more qualified staff.”
[00:13:37] Adam: Yes, hire better people.
[00:13:38] Daniel: Yes, and she goes–
[00:13:39] Adam: I’m not complaining. I’m trying to help you.
[00:13:41] Daniel: Yes, yes exactly. The manager wrote back [laughs] and said, “Thank you for your information. I saw what you experienced. I was in the restaurant when that happened.” Now, can you imagine?
[00:13:53] Adam: Now, is that better or worse?
[00:13:55] Daniel: That made it like a debacle, in my opinion because like– so you– it’s like you just watched me get choked out on the street and you didn’t do anything.
[00:14:03] Adam: Isn’t that– yes, that’s how I hear it.
[00:14:04] Daniel: Yes.
[00:14:05] Adam: It’s like, “Thank you for your sympathy now.” Where was your sympathy then?
[00:14:09] Daniel: Yes. Can you imagine it getting me back in the store while I’m still in the store is much easier than saying, “Here’s a $25 gift card. I hope you come back.” Well, I don’t know, maybe. I’ll probably give it– She said, “I probably won’t go back. I’ll probably give it to one of the young’uns who 25 bucks to them is meaningful. Not that it isn’t to her but–
[00:14:30] Adam: Right. No, no, I get it. I get it.
[00:14:32] Daniel: Again, customer experience, I think it really comes down to that. I was talking about the high-end environment. I want that experience. The outlet mall is the experiences is I’m getting the deal. You feel lie ‘I’m an insider getting the deal.’
[00:14:49] Adam: You know when you walk into that outlet mall that the experience what you’re giving up in exchange for that 35% off, and that’s a trade-off you’re willing to make. I know when I go to QSR that there’s no white tablecloth. I’m good with that because I only want to spend $18 for me and my son to have a meal. He will always choose Burger King because he just loves Burger King.
But I think it’s funny you brought up the high-end brands because, in retail, we saw Radio Shack, we talked about this on our last episode, too, about cord cutting and cable. But the Radio Shack brand, for example, has gone bankrupt probably 10 times since the downturn started and they’re done for good now.
That was a dead brand for a long time, but high-end brands like Michael Kors, is a pretty high-end brand, a consumer brand. They are having problems.
[00:15:39] Daniel: They’re closing a hundred plus stores, I just read.
[00:15:41] Adam: Yes. Yes, Ralph Lauren is a brand we talked about before. Same deal. So, something is changing out there in the world that people are actually starting to think differently about shopping and what used to be the event of going to that store. Even just walking around and then, “Well, now we’re here, let’s buy something.” Nobody’s going around– going there to hang out, so then there’s less of those casual purchases that are off the cuff.
[00:16:10] Daniel: Right, yes. So much of retail for so long was that impromptu purchase. You just happened to go to the mall as a way to hang out and socialize and the buying. Now, shopping really is destination-driven. You went to the store to get that cord.
[00:16:32] Adam: It’s task-oriented much more. Yes, I think you’re right.
[00:16:37] Daniel: Yes. Got to get a birthday present for my wife. That’s very task-oriented.
[00:16:41] Adam: Yes, and you can’t leave without getting something because you probably waited until the last minute.
[00:16:47] Daniel: Pretty close.
[laughter]
[00:16:49] Adam: Exactly, but I’m sure it was a lovely gift.
[00:16:53] Daniel: I like going back to this what you– again, I credit you with this because genuinely, your strategic thought and that retail is not dying. Again, there’s so many funerals being– or so many deaths being predicted out in the media today including retail, but it is truly in its evolution and you talked about delivery. Now, tell me a little bit more about your theory, about how delivery is changing the retail environment as well.
[00:17:24] Adam: Yes. No, I’m glad and there’s an article that is going live. By the time this is up, it should be live, that talks about there’s a little bit more, but we think a lot about delivery here. We just see the size of the trend and we see all the players, the entrepreneurs that are trying to get into the delivery business.
What we’ve noticed anecdotally and also through some research is that if you’re let’s say– I can’t say Pizza Hut, but let’s say you’re like a Wingstop or something, that’s standalone, you don’t have delivery or Buffalo Wild Wings is a better example and you use UberEATS or you use any delivery service. Well, when that thing gets to you, yes, it might be in your box but the experience at the door is UberEATS branded, it is not Buffalo Wild Wings branded.
[00:18:15] Daniel: Yes, that’s a great point.
[00:18:17] Adam: That person is dressed in that brand, that person, that experience is their brand. So, if it’s a good experience, you really don’t get any credit. You know when you get the blame is when I open it and the order’s wrong which– that could happen anyway.
[00:18:29] Daniel: Absolutely.
[00:18:30] Adam: So, what we talk about is, “Hey, if delivery’s a trend and you want to make money in delivery and you want to continue thriving as a brand and growing, what can you put in that box or that order? How can you treat that thing differently to make it feel like I’m having a special experience, even if I’m just ordering because I’m working late and I’m ordering wings for my office and there’s six of us that are pissed off, we’re here late? Make something special happen for us that we say, “Oh, this is interesting.” Sometimes small things like Taco Bell and their sauce labels, the little stupid quips they put on their sauce packets. Dumb but–
[00:19:13] Daniel: On brand.
[00:19:14] Adam: On brand and every now and then I get a little snicker when I see one and I haven’t seen that one before and it says, “Oh, I’m going to make you sweat,” or something. All right, that’s pretty– that’s just the right-
[00:19:24] Daniel: To smile.
[00:19:24] Adam: -amount of chuckle that I expect from Taco Bell. It didn’t have to be this big surprise in the light like they gave me a free chalupa, just a little joke. I think about kid’s meals, you think about Happy Meals that come in that special designed box that’s designed to delight those kids, to make those kids have a good memory.
[00:19:42] Daniel: The food is just the function.
[00:19:45] Adam: Right, at that point, yes, it’s a side item. I think they should– for delivery, if I was a brand like that, that had that business, I would probably be thinking about how could I make this the real star of the show? How could I make the delivery package interesting, engaging, and fun? I mean pizza boxes are a pretty big opportunity.
[00:20:04] Daniel: Well, it’s interesting you brought that up. I think you know this. One of the clients we’re consulting with right now which is entertainment. I challenged the teams to think about how to bring the entertainment component into the carryout.
[00:20:21] Adam: Yes, how do we get it home?
[00:20:22] Daniel: How do you do that? It doesn’t have to– to your point, don’t overthink that, don’t make it, “Oh, we’ve got to deliver some crazy expensive game that they will play.” Make it very, very simple but it’s a reminder, that thank you for getting our product via carryout, but remember the next time you want to dine in, we’re the place that has great food with fun entertainment.
[00:20:49] Adam: Yes. So much of the retail brands that we’re talking about; Michael Kors, Ralph Lauren, believe that– I’m theorizing right now, so this is all happening in real time, tell me if you disagree. They think that the brand– in a conference room, somewhere they know it’s not true, but when it gets down to the tactical level, the brand is the product on the shelves and hanging on the clothes, on the racks, and everything else is like, “Eh, it’s okay.”
I think a lot of restaurant brands think the brand can be dumbed down to just “Well, it’s the menu. It’s the food and the server better not be a jerk.” But that’s not true.
[00:21:29] Daniel: I agree with you 100%. My wife’s a big fan of Louis Vuitton and staying on the Kors example. When I’ve gone into a Louis Vuitton store with her and I see the way they deliver the sales process in that environment. I mean they put gloves on and open these drawers to get the item that she’s “Oh, I’d like to see that purse” and they go, they pull it out of this felt bag and–
[00:22:03] Adam: Right, it feels special.
[00:22:05] Daniel: It feels very special and it sure is heck better because the price tag reflects that, but you’re right. You go to a Michael Kors and it’s not anywhere near that level of experience and I do think, to a certain degree, resting on their laurels that the Michael Kors logo will carry the day.
[00:22:27] Adam: Walk out through that office. I mean everybody out there has some Michael Kors product. My son has Michael Kors sunglasses or something. I mean– [Editors note: My son just broke his glasses and replaced with Ray Bans]
[00:22:35] Daniel: Oh my gosh.
[00:22:35] Adam: Yes, it’s ridiculous. It’s everywhere. So, it’s funny if [crosstalk]
[00:22:38] Daniel: Styling.
[00:22:39] Adam: He’s a very stylish boy, but I think about the restaurant brands, it’s almost the bigger you get in scale, the further you get away from the center of your guest experience, and Jesus, we hate jargon and we’re not talking about making it just– what’s it? A customer journey map, I mean those things–
[00:22:57] Daniel: You don’t want to talk omnichannel right now?
[00:23:00] Adam: Omnichannel marketing, for sure all day. We don’t like the jargon. I think there’s value to the journey map, but honestly, we don’t have to overthink the customer journey when it comes to a restaurant.
In 70% of cases, they’re driving by, they’re hungry, and they pull in. I mean there’s not much more than that. They see an ad. They don’t even remember it and subconsciously, they see the sign and they go, “Oh, right. I’m hungry.” For whatever reason, that neuron fires and they go in. That’s the journey. If you let them down after that, they’re not coming back.
[00:23:28] Daniel: Well, and I think that– I’m very cynical about the whole customer journey because first of all, there’s millions of customers. How can you ever– if you’re going to dumb down the customer journey to, “Oh, it should be this,” that means you are missing so many opportunities because if I come in and I’m not following the journey the way you’ve been trained to deliver it.
[00:23:56] Adam: Then what?
[00:23:57] Daniel: What do you do? Especially in a environment where the sales individual or the server isn’t paid that much. They’re not going to know how to evolve and move with what I’m doing. So, I think the customer journey, quite frankly, is fraught with risk to commoditizing it all mostly like, “Okay. Well, 60% of our customers do this so therefore this will be the journey,” leaving 40% which is a boat load of people
[00:24:30] Adam: I wish– I want it to be that easy. I mean I wish it was. I would love to go sell journeys all day. I agree with you. I think they’re more– for most brands, there are some brands that can parkour their way around a journey and figure out how to shuck and jive and build on it versus being constrained. But I think for most brands, they barely have the bandwidth to build the operation they’re trying to build and it becomes a trap, it becomes a tunnel they’re stuck in.
[00:24:59] Daniel: Yes, exactly.
[00:25:02] Adam: Talking about brands, we talked about– we touched on the digital experience. We talked about Amazon who’s eating everything. Ultimately, I don’t think Amazon will be the only company in the world. I’m pretty confident. There’ll be other companies that also exist.
But another side of the digital experience is that people are spending much more time doing things that they think they’ll be able to share online, that’ll be share-worthy, that can be Instagrammed. Most stores at a mall are not that.
[00:25:35] Daniel: There’s no Instagram options in Dillard’s. Sorry, Dillard’s.
[00:25:40] Adam: No, it’s rather hideous, right?
[00:25:42] Daniel: Yes
[00:25:43] Adam: So, when we think about restaurants– who was it? There’s a few brands that do table tents that are shaped like picture frames. So, you can put your face in there and then do a selfie or take a picture of the person you’re with. It’s a dumb thing, but again, going back to that Taco Bell example, it’s something little, like just the right amount of interesting for I’m at this casual Mexican chain. That’s okay. That’s good. It doesn’t have to be much more intelligent or dynamic than that. If it is, that’s cool, but man, if you have a standee of the most interesting man of the world from Dos Equis and people can take a picture of it, they will. They will do it.
[00:26:26] Daniel: Yes, classic don’t overthink it, make it simple. Furthermore, as you know, all our stats our showing this, that user generated content is shared and consumed and liked so much more than the brand generated content because it’s not curated. It’s more organic. It’s natural. It’s more interesting because like-minded people are sharing these things and I think this example that you give, gives the user the opportunity to generate content-
[00:27:02] Adam: And control it.
[00:27:03] Daniel: -and control it and can potentially be shared because they’re friends are going to see it and then they’re going to want to say “Oh, you should see what’s going on here.:
[00:27:10] Adam: Right. Yes, that’s right. It’s more authentic in a way that the word is really intended to be used not in a way that a ’70s slide deck on authenticity for your brand-
[laughter]
-it brings to life the authentic side of it.
[00:27:26] Daniel: Be sure to be authentic.
[00:27:28] Adam: Oh, jeez. These millennials they love the authenticity.
[00:27:31] Daniel: That’s right.
[00:27:33] Adam: Any last parting shots you want to take on retail? Do you think that we’re in the midst of a funeral and almost will be close in the next 30 days?
[00:27:42] Daniel: I do not. I think it’s more like 45 to 60. No. [laughs]
[00:27:46] Adam: You think that’s good?
[00:27:47] Daniel: I subscribe to your theory. This is a major evolution going on, 25% of the malls are predicted to be closed in the next five years. I don’t doubt that. I think there’s probably a great deal of reality that I think like anything in these downturns, if you will, these evolutions, the strong will survive. The ones that are smart and in the right place and with the right mix of stores and offering new experiences within their malls instead of just resting on their laurels as to what’s been driving mall traffic for the last 20 years is not what’s going to drive mall traffic going forward.
[00:28:31] Adam: Yes, I agree. It will be new things. We won’t miss 25% of the mall’s closing. I don’t miss– I haven’t been to a mall. I can’t remember how long. You can close a quarter and nobody will miss them. I think they probably just had overbuilt.
[00:28:47] Daniel: Yes, major overbuilt. Absolutely.
[00:28:49] Adam: Yes, and so I think we’ll see what– as those really do close and are closed or knocked down and rebuilt into something else, the part of the evolution will be, “Okay. Well, which one of these restaurant brands is left standing when a major source of traffic closes?”
[00:29:05] Daniel: Yes, and it becomes the next big question for our restaurant brands as these malls close for those brands that have the luxury of expanding right now and there are many, where are they going to go? I think the real estate model and this is probably something we could do in our future-
[00:29:26] Adam: I think we should, yes.
[00:29:27] Daniel: -podcast is I think the real estate departments of all these chains are going to have to start really thinking about the model they’ve been using to select locations, I think in itself, probably it needs to evolve in the light of this evolution going on in retail.
[00:29:45] Adam: Yes, that’s a great point. I think we’re going to close on that and that’s a great place for us to pick up with our next episode. So, I think we can make a promise to do that.
[00:29:53] Daniel: Perfect.
[00:29:54] Adam: So, thank you very much for listening. If you have any questions, you can email us dan@foodandrestaurantmarketing.com or adam@foodandrestuarantmarketing.com or bug us on Twitter @FandRm. You can read the article I mentioned at foodandrestaurantmarketing.com and please comment, tell us what you like, tell us what you hate. We love to hear it all. We really appreciate it.
[00:30:18] Daniel: Take care, eat well.

Listen to the episode here.

retail, sales, traffic, restaurants
Things aren’t too busy in retail locations.

The case against mobile apps for restaurant brands

The conversation inside every restaurant brand about apps is heated. There are technology providers, white label solutions and solo coders trying to sell your brand an app. Despite the glossy sales pitch, there are some things you should know about building in app. They definitely aren’t for everyone. Here, we lay out the case against building an app, and the ways to build traffic and sales without one. Want to hear the flip side? Read the companion piece that makes the counterpoint: The case for mobile apps for restaurant brands. On with the negative case.

An app won’t generate new customers alone

For every brand, driving customers into the restaurant is the lifeblood of your business. As marketers and operators, we tend to look at every new tool as if it can drive our business. It seems we are always one tool away from cracking our business wide open. Here’s the fact – no restaurant brand has successfully launched an app that wasn’t already having success. Vendors celebrate the successful case studies like Starbucks or Domino’s. Those brands were doing just fine in the traffic department prior to launching apps that were specifically designed to improve frequency and loyalty from their legions of customers. Brands think they can launch an app without including rewards or at least special offers are not being honest with themselves. If incentivized, intelligent discounting isn’t part of your plan, do not expect mobile apps to drive trial unless the app is truly ground breaking.

A growing number of mobile users report downloading zero new apps per month.

90% of mobile usage time is in apps.

This may sound like a pretty pro-app argument. The reality is that those apps are well established corporations investing billions into user acquisition and ongoing engagement. Congratulations, your brand will now be competing against Facebook, Google, Snapchat, Pandora, Netflix, Amazon, Apple and every media and entertainment company for screen real-estate. Think your brand is as much fun as Candy Crush?

Fewer app downloads every month

Despite the dominance in usage of mobile apps on smart phones, people are seeking out few new ones. According to comScore, new app downloads per user are trending down. In fact, a growing number of mobile users report downloading zero new apps per month. This means the battle for real estate on the home screen is getting more and more serious. How serious, half of all smart phone users fall into this zero app category.

Without serious innovation it won’t drive awareness or usage

Go ahead an try any five restaurant apps for brands you never use. They likely have the same feature set and he same set of flaws. If you’re not familiar with the restaurant, the app does little to drive a visit or a sale. People inside many brands believe the mere creation of the app will be newsworthy. It won’t. To break through with consumers, the app has to offer a truly interesting experience. That might mean a novel design or an integration with the store.

Are you prepared to market mobile apps?

In many cases, brands tell us the app is a solution to the problem of low awareness or increased competition. If you’re already challenged by marketing this new app will create a new problem. The app is a product of its own. Like any product it requires a marketing plan, a budget, support and maintenance. That’s a full-time commitment. Many brands looking to the app as a savior know how hard successful launching a string of LTOs can be. Marketing the app is no simpler.

Think social media blows up when there’s a problem in one restaurant? Wait until someone has a malfunctioning app in their hand. The app is not just an extension of the brand, a successful app can become the brand – and that is a double edged sword. Spend some time on the app store to see how competitive listings are for mobile apps. Seems almost as tough as marketing a restaurant, no?

Wide adoption of mobile web

Over two years ago, the number of smart phone users surpassed the number of desktop computer users. Not only are more people than ever using smartphones to browse and shop, but this tells us that more technology investments are being made to improve the basic infrastructure. The mobile web has arrived and is getting stronger everyday. This means that having a great mobile website will accomplish most of the things the average brand hopes an app will do. At least it will provide proof of concept that your customers want an app.

True, a website will lack some of the functionality for loyalty, but testing guest interest and understanding usage patterns on the web will allow you to design and build a more useful app. A mobile website will also allow for use on iOS, Android, Windows, Blackberry and any other platform out there and keep brands above the fray between mobile payment services.

As you can see, much consideration must be made before leaping into development of an app. The investment of time, resources and of course money are critical. Want a look on the bright side? Read the companion piece that makes the counterpoint: The case for mobile apps for restaurant brands.

Transcript of Food & Restaurant Podcast – Episode: Are You A True Digital Restaurant Brand?

Transcript of Food & Restaurant Marketing Podcast – Episode: Are You A True Digital Restaurant Brand?

[00:00:05] Adam Pierno: All right, welcome back to another episode of Food and Restaurant Marketing, I am Adam Pierno, your humble servant and host, and with me today is?

[00:00:14] Daniel Santy: Your arrogant servant and host Dan Santy.

[00:00:17] Adam: [laughs] We are back, we have a great topic today. We wrote an article about this a couple of weeks ago but this is something we’re talking about basically non-stop.

[00:00:28] Dan: Pretty much, yes.

[00:00:29] Adam: Pretty much. I don’t think it’s fad. Today’s topic, Is your brand really digital? Is the way you should pronounce that when you read it.

[00:00:39] Dan: Yes.

[00:00:39] Adam: What we want to know, today everything’s online, everything’s mobile, I have the power of a supercomputer in my pocket in the form of my phone. I can pretty much accomplish anything I want. Brands all think that they are on the leading age or doing ‘digital’ but are you really digital? Are you really understanding the principles of digital that make results happen, make things change and capitalize on behaviors that consumers are leaving every day.

[00:01:12] Dan: Yes, I think many many brands are way behind the curve in this area and I don’t know if they think they’re ahead of the curve, I don’t know if they think they are current or what the case may be, but the vast majority of brands really are behind the curve when it comes to the digital space, and part of that is, and that’s me being a jerk, part of that is the landscape, the ecosystem as I like to call it is in constant flux. So it becomes very difficult to really say, ” Hey, we’re ahead of the curve”.

A good friend of mine is a digital director at an agency, he’s hyper-critical of his shop, and that shop’s doing some pretty advanced things for their clients. It’s interesting to say people are behind the curve, I think I want to be careful when I say that, but I just want people to know that you should be changing with the ecosystem. That’s if you going to dive into digital, make sure you understand you’re going to have to change with the system.

[00:02:18] Adam: Yes, let’s just talk about something that you said is the curve. What do we think is the middle of the curve? What’s table stakes? What do you have to have to be considered even a current brand? We’ve been really digging into this topic across categories, beyond restaurants too but in other retail categories to understand this, but we see, there is are kind of a menu that should exist.

[00:02:44] Dan: Yes, I agree. Email marketing, I mean it sounds so mundane, but really if you think about it, those are some of your best customers because they’ve given you their data and said, “Yes, it’s okay to message me.” Staying current with your email marketing and make sure it’s tight, don’t over send, don’t send things that are ridiculous just to stay in front of the audience, again be relevant, we talk about that all the time. All these things you have to be very relevant.

[00:03:19] Adam: Right, so email is a great example. Having emails kind of table stakes, but having a great email program is being ahead of the curve, so having automated sense, having relevant personalized information that is thought out in catalogue and sent at the right time. That moves that email program, or even have an email program to sign up, put your card in a fish bowl to– ahead of the curve.

If you are doing it right and you have the right inputs in there and you can customize my message and say “You like this dish, here is a deal on that dish today, because we know you coming on Thursdays.”

[00:03:57] Dan: Right. Yes, and one last point on email marketing and that is, look at the analytics, see how they’re performing. When you pay attention to that, you can get rid of the under performing messaging and you can capitalize on the things that perform well. Now all of a sudden you’re again fine-tuning that messaging going forward and so your customers are going to appreciate that.

[00:04:25] Adam: Yes, look at the analytics is step one, do something with that is step two. We don’t have anything to say when people say, “Well we’ve got 50,000 subscribers,” and it’s like what did you do about knowing that? How big are you when you start segmenting and creating subgroups, and it’s not just our customers but this is our chicken customer, this is our beef customer, this is our dinner customer, this is our breakfast customer. Another thing that I think is kind of tables stakes, social media.

[00:04:53] Dan: Yes, unfortunately, no I’m just kidding. [laughter] It is, I mean there just billions and billions of interactions in social every day. You just need to capitalize on that, and we talked about it in a different podcast. The idea of putting up relevant content and then supporting it with paid social. It’s so critical for those of you who understand how the algorithms work, your organics reach is very low these days.

[00:05:29] Adam: It’s lowest, 2%, if you’re a brand, it’s over 500,000 followers.

[00:05:35] Dan: Yes. It’s a pay-to-play model, but it’s not terribly expensive and you can control it and once again measure it and test and optimize.

[00:05:45] Adam: But just being there, it’s expected value. As a consumer we know from our studies and reading other research studies that consumers expect whatever platform they use, they expect brands to be there and when they want to complain or ask a question or if they’re on kick and they want to ask a question on the brand, they expect you to be there, and when you’re not, they feel like there’s something missing about the brand.

That doesn’t mean you have to be there, but it means you should be thoughtful about where you are and how you reaching the majority of your customers and not just people in general where you can get Facebook.

[00:06:17] Dan: Exactly. The final one I guess for table stakes is your site, your website, and please please understand that it needs to be mobile optimized, it’s just so critical. Go to a restaurant brand, maybe I’m just trying to find the nearest location, or I want to see a menu, whatever, make sure I can look at it on my smartphone really easily and visibly.

[00:06:51] Adam: Yes, and on the phone I mean you should, this point site should be built for the phone first. We’re all retail, we want to drive customers, we want to drive traffic. Location should be the first thing that’s popping up, and it’s saying there’s one a quarter mile away from you, would you like directions? Here’s the menu to that store.

[00:07:09] Dan: Right, absolutely.

[00:07:09] Adam: Right? Not just a generic PDF, please no more PDF menus. Give me a menu that I can scroll, that customers can copy out an item out of it, share it and send it to somebody and say, “This is what you wanted me to order.” I mean make it easy for people to shop you with one thumb.

[00:07:26] Dan: Ask yourself, “what sites do you use on your mobile device and enjoy so much?” Then say, “what is it about those sites that make it a better user experience? Make it a simple user experience.” Make sure you’re thinking about that for your own site, or if you have someone building your site, which most people do obviously, or designing it, make sure they understand these fundamentals as well.

[00:07:52] Adam: Yes, it’s really funny that when we’re here talking on the Food & Restaurant Marketing Podcast, you don’t have to draw inspiration just from that category. Go look and see what other brands are doing. When we talk about social media, go look and see who is really doing a great job engaging customers or creating content or whatever you want to do, and borrow freely, don’t steal. Be inspired by those, then apply it to your own brand.

I think when you look at people that are doing really well in this space, Denny’s has taken it to a next level of really being on top of it, great community management for a brand that you wouldn’t think even have a community.

[00:08:36] Dan: Right. Indeed you bring up a community management that is so critical. If customers are contacting you or tweeting or posting on Facebook, whatever the case may be, make sure you’re responding. Even if you just private message them or whatever the case may be, that’s all they want, they want attention, they want somebody that say, “Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry you had that bad experience,” and vice versa, they might be tweeting, “Just had a great meal at Quiznos.” I don’t think I’ve seen that tweet in a while–[laughter] but reward that person too and thank them.

[00:09:16] Adam: Yes, and I think what gets ahead of the curve and community management is the voice, the tone. The speed of the reply is important but really, again going back to Denny’s, the way they have been winning customers is just through a consistency of wit and demonstrating that they’re connected to the internet and knowing what’s happening almost all the time. In fact setting trends. Let’s be honest 10 years ago for Denny’s, it was not a relevant brand.

[00:09:45] Dan: Absolutely.

[00:09:45] Adam: They’re forcing themselves to be relevant through conversations that are happening and getting picked up, and copied and pasted and tweeted and reposted across the internet. That’s a huge win for probably the three entry level people that are responding to tweets all day.

[00:10:02] Dan: Yes. Another pet peeve of mine is when the brand is trying to get you to tweet about me. Tweet about me and I’ll do something for you. I think that kind of tends to be disingenuous. This is off category but I made a hotel reservation just the other day and a like box came up after the reservation said, “Hey, like us on Facebook” or in one of the social– they made it very easy for me to do it– should I do it?
Have not stayed at this property, so I’m not going to tweet about something I haven’t stayed at yet. I thought it was a little too aggressive and then they emailed me that same message. Now that was a bit irritating.

[00:10:42] Adam: Over the line?

[00:10:43] Dan: Yes, I gave you my email address so you could send me my confirmation not so you could continue to market to me. I think we have to be wise about how you communicate with your customers and what you’re asking them to do. Like us on Facebook, well give me a reason why.

[00:11:00] Adam: Absolutely, another thing when we think about brands that really are digital. That really get it. Domino’s is a great example. They just keep innovating. They keep on going further, further and further with finding new ways to get people to order, engage with the brand in digital space. That’s great in and of itself. I can order with an emoji. That’s cool and it’s fun and I’m never going to do it. What’s even better is that it’s an idea that gets PR.

[00:11:30] Dan: Exactly, the holy grail of a great marketing campaign is when it does get publicity because it carries itself so much further. People are going to see the story, go look it up online. All of a sudden you’re getting eyeballs, you’re not getting from your traditional TV buyer or whatever you may be doing. That’s a great point. It’s not easy to do at all. We’re not naive about that, but think about that and think about the programs that you have and put them out to the press. Let the press decide if they’re newsworthy or not, but not doing it at all, it’s not going to get picked up.

[00:12:12] Adam: Yes, part of the thing is having a mind for that. If that’s your goal. Thinking about that as you’re looking at ideas and programs as they come up. It’s like, “Could we pitch this? Is this an idea that could get press or is it just an idea?” Ultimately revenue is more valuable, but if you can also get press, that’s great. I kind of suspect the order with an emoji is more of a PR play than the actual. I don’t think anyone thought, “Oh, this is going to increase sales by this percentage.” The shareholders did not give that a standing O with Q4 call.

[00:12:46] Dan: Indeed, I read a great– dovetailing just more of this digital advertising. Read a great Buzzfeed article just the other day. Essentially, I think it was the CEO had pen this particular column. He was talking about the ad industry and the fact that we’re taking linear advertising and putting it in the digital space and how flawed that truly is because the digital space is its own animal and taking what we’re doing in a print ad or television commercial or whatever to try and make it fit into the digital realm is backwards. I couldn’t agree with him more. You’re going to be in that space make sure you think about how those ads, those ad units, the native advertising, whatever you’re doing is going to live with those publishers so that you could put it there in a meaningful way.

[00:13:49] Adam: Absolutely, banner ads are mostly a waste of time and that’s the exact meaning of is your brand really digital. Well, we have a display program or we run pre-roll. At least pre-roll tells your story. Video is powerful but really plugging in and understanding how people use digital, how they use mobile and creating a message that connects that relationship and a consumer creating that beautiful triangular value. That’s what real digital brands are doing. Domino’s order with an emoji, pizza tracker and all those things it just keeps on piling on and making it stronger and stronger.

[00:14:30] Dan: Agreed. What’s your take on apps, Adam? I know you have a pretty strong opinion about the app world. Should every brand have an app?

[00:14:41] Adam: No. I was actually with comScore a couple years ago. It was the late ’14, might have been early ’15 released the stat that said that monthly average app downloads had gotten to zero. [Editor’s note: It was actually September 2016] That people were just downloading fewer and fewer apps per month.

[00:15:01] Dan: I remember you bringing this to me.

[00:15:03] Adam: At its peak, it was 11 a month or 16 a month or something. This was across a general age group so it wasn’t specific to any demos. I’m sure there’s tweens out there that’s still downloading.

[00:15:13] Dan: Plenty of apps.

[00:15:14] Adam: Yes, and since I read that, I really have been paying attention and picking up people’s phones and looking at their phones and seeing what apps they have, looking for ideas. I’m down to two pages and maybe generously, maybe I have 25 apps on my phone. I don’t want to join the conversation with your brand. I eat a lot of QSR, a lot of Fast Casuals. I eat a decent amount of Casual Dining still. I’m probably the last one.
I don’t need an app unless there’s a value to it and I don’t need a coupon. It’s like I have the Delta Airlines app on my phone because it serves a really good purpose and does it in a really good way when I travel.

[00:16:00] Dan: I think what you’re talking about there, Delta is a great example and that’s function. It’s an important function. You’re simplifying something for me [unintelligible 00:16:12] to your point that the app has enormous value. I would think really long and hard about an app but I think is better, that is what we were talking about earlier in creating a pristine mobile web experience for your brand of whatever that may mean for you.

That is probably money better spent than trying to invest in an app because what people forget about the app. Now you’ve got to get people to download it so all of a sudden you got to spend marketing dollars promoting your app to get people to download it so hopefully, they’ll use it and now you’re not using those same. You’ve diluted your marketing budget when you could have been using that to be doing mobile advertising or SMS advertising whatever the case may be.

[00:17:02] Adam: That’s it, you nailed it. We talk about it when we were working with brands. We tell them if you’re committed to this you’re creating another product. Would you rather promote a day part or this app? Because now you have to pull people into this ecosystem to get the ROI out of it. Maybe, you might. I think you’re dead on, having a more powerful website is more important because then when it’s on my mind and I pull it up, I get the experience I want versus now the restaurant, your locations.

You’ve given up POP space to try to get people to download this app that they probably don’t want or they download it to get the coupon or whatever you’re incenting them with and then they delete it or they keep it and it’s on page nine of their phone and they never look at it again. Is that valuable? I don’t know. It’s debatable.

[00:17:53] Dan: It’s such a competitive space and I take your point, why do you have so few because so many don’t provide value. Why would I load up my screen with these things and never use them and I bet if you track your behavior of the apps, you do have it’s probably something like 80 20, 80% of your users have 20% of the apps you have on your phone.

[00:18:22] Adam: I’m sure. It’s probably Mail, Twitter and whatever game I’m playing. It’s those three things. You definitely hit the nail on the head. Delta as an example, I also have the Southwest app. Those make traveling easier. I can get the boarding pass. I don’t have to print anything if I’m on the road I just pull up that little QR code is the only place–

[00:18:46] Dan: Change my flight if I have to.

[00:18:48] Adam: Right, makes traveling easier, makes it simpler and so I keep those things on my phone. But does a restaurant app, how is that going to make my life easier if it’s for– is an Applebee’s app going to make my life easier?

[00:19:02] Dan: No.

[00:19:03] Adam: Is a Buffalo Wild Wings app? How will it improve the experience? I guess–

[00:19:08] Dan: No at all. [laughs] In our opinion.

[00:19:11] Adam: If I was a weekly customer and it gave me a coupon and let me order every week or predicted or did something. It reminded me, “Hey it’s time for your weekly–.” I don’t know. I don’t think I want that either, so why are we doing it. You’re paying for a location finder in most cases.

[00:19:26] Dan: Indeed. Well, here’s the next big subject that everybody’s talking about is data. Why is it crucial? Why is data so crucial and have the publishers in the world who are talking about data, ruin data by referring to it as big data which I think makes people go, “Oh man crap, what I’m I going to do with all this information,” because there is a lot of information available to us, but what information is really meaningful.

[00:20:01] Adam: You said it. Everybody’s talking about it but nobody is saying anything. It’s just like big data is really powerful. The brands that are truly digital brands know how to employ this data. They know what data they’re trying to collect. They have a precision about it. They’re smart and they have a plan for what they want to learn.

Start with a hypothesis. If you want to be a digital brand, figure out what you want to learn, and then say, “Okay. To do that, I need to capture this data.” We work with brands a lot on this particular aspect of how do we better know your costumers? what data do we need to collect?

[00:20:37] Dan: Exactly, and make sure, Adam said this earlier in the podcast, analysis. Analysis. That’s the important thing. It’s one thing to collect the data and that’s its own infrastructure need, to make sure you can actually collect data on what your costumers’ behavior is. Second, is to analyze that. Then third, of course, is to make conclusions and recommendations on and how’re you going to act on that analysis.

I think we miss that piece of the puzzle all too often. With as much data as there is today, it still kills me when I hear a brand say things anecdotally. Well, that didn’t work. It’s like, “Can someone please give me the analytics on that?” What does that mean? Does that mean zero people did whatever it was we wanted them to do? 10% did, and we usually want a 50% of that activity rate, whatever. I get so frustrated because I know the data is there to– maybe there to validate that it didn’t work, but let’s define success, let’s define failure.

[00:21:47] Adam: Yes, amen. I know we’re on the same page about this one. I think when you’re talking about measuring success versus failure and there’s a lot on the line. If you’re a public company, there’s a lot on the line between shareholder value. But for private companies too, there’s jobs on the line, there’s locations on the line. This stuff really matters. If we’re talking about measuring the difference between success and failure, one thing we are obsessed with is attribution.

If we have a campaign that’s about- let’s make it about a day part, so everybody’s launching breakfast right now, that’s the craze. What I would love to look back at this in 18 months and see who still has breakfast. What is really driving breakfast traffic? Which piece of your digital campaign is really working and doing that? Knowing that and going from the top end, so we did this native video series with a breakfast chef, and now breakfast is up 10%. Well, what percentage of those people went deep in the funnel and clicked and did something that you know they used a coupon and they went to your store.

[00:22:48] Dan: Agree because usually in a situation like that where you’re adding a day part or a whole new menu and set of items that are not typical to your brand, your regular costumers are going to try it. Digital lose a lunch over a breakfast a trip, so I think you’re absolutely right, Adam. Attribution is king because, again, that’s the thing that’s going to tell you what’s working and what’s not.

[00:23:20] Adam: Yes, you have to be able to track back. The last bit of this is actually going inside the store. We talked about Domino’s that has great tech to get me to order, and they don’t have an in-store experience to speak of, but Panera has added kiosks on which customers can order, customize their order, choose your sandwich, choose your soup, whatever they’re doing, and they go sit down wait and someone brings it out. It’s essentially a swap out, one for one, with a clerk versus this kiosk.

McDonald is also been testing it with the ‘your way’ platform that they did away with, but they kept the kiosks. Those are digital innovations that make sense for the brand. The digital menu boards are not.

[00:24:09] Dan: [laughs]

[00:24:10] Adam: That does not make you a digital brand. The Ziosk-

[00:24:13] Dan: I love that analogy.

[00:24:15] Adam: the Ziosk table-side tablet that sits on the table at Chili’s, also does not make you a digital brand.

[00:24:25] Dan: Not at all. I couldn’t agree with you more. I think that that example you’re giving, again, no different than the app that Panera kiosk is serving a really important customer experience, and that is speed of service. I don’t have just talk to somebody, I’m used to working in this environment, especially, all them- Forgive me for saying it, Millennials, Gen Z, who grown up with technology, they’re very comfortable with it. If you’re going to do that, though, make sure, again, that user experience is a stellar.

[00:25:00] Adam: That right there, the user experience, is what separates the digital brand from the not digital brands. The brands who are saying, “We’re digital. We have digital menu boards. We bought Ziosks for the table.” No, you put a TV on the table.

[00:25:13] Dan: [laughs] Right.

[00:25:15] Adam: Now you have distracted guests. You’ve actually broken the table experience when two kids fight over the Ziosk, or one person is consumed with a game and the other three people are eating. That doesn’t make the experience better, that’s what- I guess it took us a long time to get to this, and it’s not in our notes but- or the article, does your use of digital make your brand better? Does it make the experience better?

[00:25:42] Dan: Yes. I can give you another one that’s a pet peeve of mine, and this is at Fine Dining. Typically, I think some casual diners do this, but please don’t put your wine menu on an iPad.

[00:25:54] Adam: Oh God.

[00:25:55] Dan: I’ve got to scroll and scroll. I mean this is not the experience I want. I want to look at wine menus, I want to turn that page, that’s a bad experience in my opinion.

[00:26:08] Adam: There is something about–

[00:26:08] Dan: It serves no function except that you don’t have to print wine list anymore.

[00:26:13] Adam: But you could print a one-page wine list, it doesn’t have to be fancy. There’s something about the tactile flipping the page and it doesn’t have to be in a book, but- I agree. It’s especially weird on a Ziosk. I don’t want to pick my rosay from a computer screen and be like, “Oh, how about Rose number 91.”

[00:26:31] Dan: Yes, the waiter is standing over me and he’s just, “Would you like bold flavors or you like sweet.” And I’m like, “Go, please go away.” [laughs]

[00:26:40] Adam: That’s not making the experience better-

[00:26:41] Dan: No.

[00:26:42] Adam: -it’s making it awkward.

[00:26:43] Dan: Exactly.

[00:26:44] Adam: Super effing awkward.

[00:26:46] Dan: Well, I think we hit the digital realm here, that’s for sure. I love talking about digital because it is ever changing.

[00:26:55] Adam: Absolutely.

[00:26:56] Dan: That’s for sure. This won’t be the last time.

[00:26:58] Adam: Even by the time we record this, to the time we publish this podcast episode, a lot of things will change. Thank you for joining us. Because Dan and I are both extremely digital people, you can use the electronic mail to reach us. dan@foodandrestuarantmarketing.com or adam@foodandrestaurantmarketing or you can hit us on the Twitter, @F&RM is our Twitter handle. Visit the website. Please subscribe to the podcast if you like what you heard, or if you hated what you heard, subscribe anyway. All right, thanks a lot.

[00:27:30] [END OF AUDIO]

Transcriptions by Go Transcript.

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Listen to the episode: Are You A True Digital Restaurant Brand?