Transcript of Food & Restaurant Podcast – Is your brand ready for a mobile app?

Transcript of Food & Restaurant Marketing Podcast – Episode: Is your brand ready for a mobile app?

Read these companion articles, too: The Pros. The Cons.

[00:00:04] Adam Pierno: Okay, welcome back to another episode of Food and Restaurant marketing. We’re so excited to be back. Let me tell you why. We’re doing something real fun and a little different than what we have done in the past. We have done an editorial food guest on mobile apps. We’ve had some brands that we’ve been talking to that told us “Hey we needed this. This is something we needed or this is something we want.” We’ve started digging in and giving them recommendations on whether that’s a good idea or a bad idea, guess what? It all depends right?


[00:00:40] Daniel Santy: It all depends.

[00:00:42] Adam: With me, as ever you just heard him is Dan Santy.

[00:00:46] Dan: Good morning, afternoon or evening.

[00:00:50] Adam: As you know, as time shifted so they listen when they goddamn want to. We don’t control that.

[00:00:56] Dan: That’s right.

[00:00:57] Adam: But they’re probably listening on a mobile device, in all likelihood. That’s the topic of the day. We’ve written a couple of posts on One in the positive, the affirmative argument. The pros of having a mobile app and when you should want to do that. Then one, the argument against. When is it the wrong time to do or why wouldn’t you need to do it? That’s what we kind of want to talk about today. That’s what Dan and I’ve been kicking around here for a while. We’re excited to debate it and duke it out today and talk through it.

[00:01:35] Dan: In spirit of full disclosure, Mr. Pierno is the author of both of those articles. I’d like to take a little bit of credit for having drafted some of that content, but Mr. Pierno did, based on conversations we’ve had. The debate’s been lively because we’re talking to a lot of our consulting clients and they’re asking this question. This is truly the question. Clearly everything’s moving to mobile. Not moving, is mobile. What’s happening right now Adam, website traffic on many of our clients’ sites 70, 80% mobile.

[00:02:16] Adam: Yes. It’s interesting. Back in 2010, we started to notice a trend of increased mobile access. If you’re looking at the sources, if you look at the devices coming to the sites, or the m. version of the site that were being accessed. We started to notice, it’s 10% then the next year it’s 20%. What we started to realize was at that time in 2011, we saw year over year a 10% increase in visits or a percentage of visits were from a mobile device. Now, even on transactional behavior, it’s 70-80%.

Everybody’s using their mobile. That’s a little deceptive because you think mobile and I’m holding my iPhone but it could be a tablet. Technically, the way analytics and most analytics platforms work is those things are counted as a mobile device and they’re not a desktop which is now a laptop. They are mobile devices. They receive the web differently, people have a different set of attention when they use those. People’s expectations depending on a device are so different.

If I come on a laptop, I want one set of things and I expect a certain set of options. If I come on my phone, I’d probably, most likely I’m at the office or I’m in a car, or I’m somewhere on the go and I need a quick answer. If I’m on a tablet, I’m looking for some other intermediary set of options. Do you agree?

[00:03:48] Dan: 100%, it’s so funny because my wife constantly says to me, “How can you read your email?” How can you do whatever it is I’m doing. I read the New York times on that. I go to my email. Obviously a whole host of things. It’s so second nature today. It’s second nature and the convenience of it is ridiculous. If my laptop is in my briefcase, in my bedroom. I’m out in the kitchen having a cup of coffee, I’m like I’m on my old device-

[00:04:26] Adam: You’re not a tablet guy?

[00:04:28] Dan: No, I was early on. I had an iPad. That actually had cascaded to my wife and she still has that device today and still uses it.

[00:04:38] Adam: Yes. My wife uses one too. I’m either at laptop or phone.

[00:04:42] Dan: But you know what’s interesting about the word mobile today is if you watch what happens in the office, people are mobile with their laptops because of WiFi. I watch three, four, five, six seven, well, 30 people wander around because they’re going to meetings in small conference rooms, large conference rooms, wherever they’re going to work with somebody in a different-

[00:05:09] Adam: The laptop is open while they’re walking, they’re pretty much typing or doing a Hangout while they’re walking.

[00:05:15] Dan: It’s crazy. It’s absolutely crazy. Mobile is here. Unless you’re on a — please don’t be offended, a PC. You can’t do-

[00:05:27] Adam: We have a couple of PCs out there right outside my door, there’s a couple of people on PCs. We have been testing a lot of software for brands. The whole Mac or PC thing is, a lot of that’s been resolved by web-based software. They’re so a little con-care and a little more prone to getting viruses but otherwise, it’s caught up. It’s pretty even.

[00:05:53] Dan: I’m not going to hate on that. I’m not going to do it.

[00:05:55] Adam: You make a fantastic point. No matter what device you’re accessing from, you are mobile now. Everything is mobile now. Now the onus is on the brand. Hypothetically, let’s just make up a brand for this. Maybe we’ll use it for the whole episode or maybe we’ll just use it for this part of the conversation–

[00:06:14] Dan: Suzy Wednesday? Should we call it Suzy Wednesday?

[00:06:16] Adam: Suzy Wednesday, that’s a great example. Let’s say I have with that, in that case, 250 locations, let’s call them super regional just for the point of argument. Everybody who wants to see more about Suzy Wednesday, my brand, has a mobile state of mind. Even if I’m at my best, and let’s say I have a real desktop computer, I still want to know quickly, menu. I want an HTML menu. I don’t want a PDF.

[00:06:46] Dan: Location.

[00:06:48] Adam: Location number one. How far is it from here? Can I click an order? I want everything. I want access to it. I want to be able to do it. I want it on my terms. Now, that sounds great if you’re listening to this on your mobile device you’re saying “Well, I just downloaded this podcast and that’s how I expect it to be, great.” If you are the marketing or the technology officer at Suzy Wednesdays, you have a mess in your pants because you’re figuring out “How am I going to deliver that experience across devices?”

There’s a lot of great things about mobile apps but from a brand perspective, it’s an unholy nightmare. It’s got a tie in with your POS. It’s got a tie in with your traffic patterns. When you unleash that thing on the world, you actually have no idea. The walk-in traffic experience for a brand where we talked to of the store where they will tell us.

Well at this time of day, this time of year, this is what I expect. 220 tickets that day. They know it very well. Unleash the mobile app, it throws everything out of whack. Who the hell knows who’s going to come in at that point through the app.

[00:08:00] Dan: Well, if you go all the way back to what you were just talking about at the beginning, that is tying into the POS.

[00:08:11] Adam: It’s critical. What we’ve seen, in the complexity because there’s so many vendors involved in that environment. You and I as a consumer, or any general consumer out there, we pull something up on our app. If it’s not seamless into the POS, it gets crazy and then we lose the analytics, we’re spending tens of thousands of dollars trying to figure it out with a variety of different vendors because there’s so many different vendors out there providing the service.

How many of our clients have had these fits and starts? This looks like the perfect solution. When you try to do the connection, the connection is janky or can’t be done, it’s going to cost whatever to make it get that.

[00:09:07] Adam: Yes. This day, we were talking about a brand that had invested with a software service. They had the SAS. They were a pilot. They were in on the ground floors. Great value on that. Software service came and said, “You know what? We’ve looked at it in our business model. We don’t like it. We’re pulling out of this. We’re going to close this business. We’re not going to support this anymore.” Holy Moly, that just threw their plan, their five year plan just gone to garbage.

[00:09:35] Dan: By the way, you know that SAS was talking about bailing from that for months.

[00:09:45] Adam: That’s a different thing.

[00:09:47] Dan: They had a huge opportunity to say, “Hey, we’re starting to question this.” Of course, don’t worry about revenue. I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole. Everybody gets that.

[00:10:01] Adam: [crosstalk]

[00:10:02] Dan: Go ahead.

[00:10:02] Adam: No, you go ahead.

[00:10:04] Dan: Clearly, the online ordering functionality is really taking off.

[00:10:11] Adam: And people love it. They’ve been trained in it. They’re used to it. It’s easier than talking to somebody, you could get your order wrong.

[00:10:20] Dan: Or texting we don’t– fundamentally, we don’t want to talk to anybody. Especially– no slams to the workers but if I can use an online ordering function tool or whatever it is and not have to talk to the 18-year old minimum wage worker at the fast-casual, I’m in. I’m totally in.

[00:10:45] Adam: I’m going to give you one better. Flip it to that person’s side, okay? I’m with you and I have the tendency to say like “That person is messing it up.” Or, “How many times have I gotten home and realize that they’ve forgot XYZ.” but flip it from your side or from an operator’s side, it’s loud in Taco Bell. It’s loud in the pizza place. That poor person who uses that GD phone is– they can’t hear you and they’re trying their best and there’s someone staying at the underway for money out and the guy behind them is saying, “Coming through, hot, hot, hot.”

[00:11:20] Dan: Good point. You know what? You’re so empathetic. I’m a little surprised.

[00:11:25] Adam: Empathy is my specialty. If you’re listening to this, you should know. I have no empathy.

[00:11:30] Dan: I just want everybody to know that you just witnessed an amazing empathetic moment.

[00:11:38] Adam: [laughs] [crosstalk] No, I have worked in the restaurant industry. I have been a server and a bus boy and I’ve made pizzas and I’ve worked on that side of the counter so I know. It’s not easy to get it right 100% of the time and they get it right more than we think because we as customers we tend to focus on the negatives but the online order is a huge, absolutely huge thing.

[00:12:02] Dan: Huge. On the flip side, really important point about online ordering in my opinion is– and this is what emerging brands and evolving brands need to understand. Domino’s has created an environment that has set a standard that all other brands will now be held to. That is a critical thing. We do all these conversation of, should we, shouldn’t we and let’s say we are on the should path so the brand decides, we’re going down that path with them and you’d better hold yourself up to that standard.

And that’s where it becomes really complicated because Domino’s went all in on technology and is not letting up. That’s a big deal that people need to understand.

[00:13:05] Adam: It’s funny that you said that, you jumped ahead a little bit–

[00:13:10] Dan: I’m sorry.

[00:13:11] Adam: No, don’t apologize. I love it, let’s just talk, the outline is our guide. We own this outline. You use the word technology when it comes to Domino’s but I think the word is innovation. Earlier today, day and night ate at the restaurant and it actually had the word innovation on the menu which appalled us both. I mean in a description of a meal but–

[00:13:36] Dan: The salad–

[00:13:38] Adam: [sigh] It was not innovative but Domino’s app is legitimately time after time after time after time innovative, legitimately. And so if– you’re dead on, yes, it’s such a good point. If you are– what if you call it, Suzy Wednesdays?

[00:13:55] Dan: [laughs] Suzy Wednesdays.

[00:13:56] Adam: And you want to make an app and you want to go with Relevant Media’s white label product, it’s a great product. [unintelligible 00:14:05] does a great job of keeping something off the shelf. It doesn’t compete with Domino’s and you’re right customers, this is what we deal with grants and when we do research into consumer groups. They don’t give a tear about what category you are in and how much you spend and how many units you have. They say, “Well, Domino’s crushes it.” Chick-fil-A, absolutely has a sick app and I get a reward every other time I go with Whatsapp.

Starbucks I can order in my car, in my garage and it’s ready for me when I get there. The expectations have been set and now, your app is not just your app, is the entire experience because that’s what’s been trained into them.

[00:14:49] Dan: Adam, I think we’re on to a very interesting phenomenon that I don’t hear talked about enough in the strategic sessions we’re having with our clients. And that is, it’s not, should we, shouldn’t we. Are we prepared to make the investment to be at a level that customer will go, “You know what? Hey, this is really amazing, what this brand has done.”? Because it’s an evolving brand or it’s a– maybe it’s even a Suzy Wednesday that’s you’ve been suffering but they’re trying to catch up.

You can’t cheap out on this. There’s no short cut. There’s no way to fake– you can’t fake this.

[00:15:44] Adam: No. And especially with the– you’ve just sprung so many ideas in my mind but number one, with– I hate to say the M word but millennials and the younger generations coming up, digital natives whatever you call them. I’m a gen-X’er and I consider myself a digital native. Listen, my expectation is flawless execution. If you’re at Suzy Wednesdays and you’ve got– what did I say, 250 locations, I don’t care. If you give me the chance to use an app and it sucks, you suck.

[00:16:16] Dan: Well, because by the way, your dad or your mom or your mom and dad might say, “Adam, let’s go to Suzy Wednesday.” Because they like going there. You’re immediately going on to check these guys out and you’re like, “Wah, wah, this is disappointing.” And probably saying, “Hey, mom and dad? How about– ?” And now you’re redirecting.

[00:16:42] Adam: And we go to Domino’s.


[00:16:49] Adam: No offense, I do like Domino’s, I had nothing against it since they did the reformulation, 10 years ago, good stuff. One thing that apps are amazing at, this is something I’ve noticed as a consumer; the commit spend, I call it. Starbucks, pioneered this. Chick-fil-A does this as well. Look, every app wants me to put my credit card in and get ready to spend with them like through Apple pay or through their own spend, that’s great. It is smart business.

Well, those two brands do better. They want you to make a transaction right there. Put 20 bucks into your account, they don’t want your credit card, they actually want cash paid in. Now, as a consumer– so for Starbucks, I have to put $20 to use the app and then guess what, I’m going to spend it because it’s already committed, I’ve already paid it.

So they’ve got me for those and now it’s up to them to figure out how fast I use it. It’s like a slot machine.

[00:17:46] Dan: Can I tell you something? I hate that whole concept.

[00:17:50] Adam: I downloaded the Chick-fil-A as preparation for this conversation, which– Chick fil A, I love. I downloaded CFA one or whatever it’s called, got halfway into it’s– realized that’s what it was and deleted it. Don’t make me commit my GD money, man. I want to buy $10 dollars at the time. I don’t want to give you $50 now and be on a subscription.

[00:18:11] Dan: Make it an option or make it an opt-out like a 401k, everyone’s opted in unless you tell me you want out.

[00:18:20] Adam: There’s a check box where you say, I don’t prefer this.

[00:18:22] Dan: I don’t want this, yes. [crosstalk]

[00:18:24] Adam: I get the brand side of it. There’s a few brands that have it cached or even request it. And maybe Chick-fil-A is at that level, their loyalty, their traffic. I do love that brand. We go there enough for crying out loud but I don’t want to pay in so I have to think about some of the brands that actually have the gravitas or an app. That’s spin gravitation where I know it’s going to happen. McDonald’s is probably one but they wouldn’t have the sense to do it because they want to keep those small tickets moving. They don’t want people thinking about that.

[00:19:03] Dan: Yes, it’s interesting. Starbucks clearly has that permission because the vast– no, I don’t want to say vast majority but a significant number, their customers obviously are going there three times a week, seven days or whatever, it doesn’t matter, their frequency is sick.

[00:19:21] Adam: And in your mind as a consumer in that, they think “Okay, three bucks, four bucks a top. I’ll put in 50 bucks and that’ll get me through this quarter.” and meanwhile they spend it in three weeks. We’ve talked before on this podcast about how addictive that app is.

The next benefit, I think is loyalty. We’re big believers in one thing; an app is not going to solve your marketing problem. It’s not going to drive traffic. If you just open today and you start an app, the app is not going to drive traffic and fill your store, okay? So stop it, if you’re a new brand or an emerging brand. If you have some traffic, what the app can do is build loyalty, build some extra occasions, and adds a point of view that is grounded in. Data, I mean it’s grounded in facts. A lot of brands come in and say “Hey, we want this because Chik-fil-A and Chipotle and Starbucks have one.” Yes those are great case studies but flawed because your brand is not those brands and I’m not sure everybody who’s listening to this but I’m 99% sure I can say with confidence that your brand is not those brands or up to those brand’s standards. That’s not a knock on your brand. You’re just not Starbucks.

[00:20:45] Dan: This falls under the category of, you know, let’s just be brutally honest; be brutally honest. Don’t be delusional about how loyal people are to you. Do not be delusional that you are a Starbucks or an emerging Starbucks. I mean, you’re somewhere in your life cycle. Be honest where you are in your life cycle and build your online environment based on that.

[00:21:18] Adam: That’s it.

[00:21:19] Dan: That’s it.

[00:21:20] Adam: Know your customer.

[00:21:21] Dan: Yes.

[00:21:22] Adam: And know how much your customer loves you. Know what the gravitational pull had became your brand as a star and people coming in. Yes, they come in once every three months? Not enough.

[00:21:33] Dan: Right.

[00:21:34] Adam: I don’t need your app and what we’ve found time and time again, the app is not a cure-all for the traffic world or your frequency was. If you have traffic, the app is an accelerant to loyalty.

[00:21:46] Dan: No research we ever done has said “I make a decision to eat at an establishment based on whether they have an app or not.”

[00:21:57] Adam: Right. That what’s worst that we do have data that says “I’ve open a terrible app and therefore I don’t go.”

[00:22:05] Dan: Boom.

[00:22:07] Adam: Right?

[00:22:08] Dan: Right? So go down chase– go down that rabbit hole and find yourself and find yourself actually suffering from your investment decision.

[00:22:17] Adam: Right. Don’t do it wrong. Do it right.

[00:22:20] Dan: Wait.

[00:22:21] Adam: Uh oh.

[00:22:22] Dan: Wait.

[00:22:23] Adam: Oh oh. This is serious.

[00:22:25] Dan: We should not. You should not.

[00:22:31] Adam: What should not?

[00:22:32] Dan: Build an app. Stop, stop and we could end the podcast–

[00:22:39] Adam: Oh I know, I know exactly where you are going.

[00:22:42] Dan: Adam found this unbelievable stat that I’m probably not gonna do justice–

[00:22:47] Adam: No, go ahead. I have a link that will be in the show notes. It’s in the article.

[00:22:52] Dan: This fact. This empirical fact not my opinion–

[00:22:58] Adam: It’s true for the second year in row. I know what you’re saying and I have data that shows ’15 and ’16 history.

[00:23:02] Dan: People are downloading apps.

[00:23:05] Adam: Yes. Now it’s comScore, in your mobile app research, found. There’s a segment of people who claimed to have downloaded zero apps per month. Zero. Okay.

[00:23:19] Dan: I’m sorry, what was the number?

[00:23:21] Adam: It was zero and by the way that is over 50% of the respondents of their survey. It’s not a small sliver anymore. So they found a significant amount in 2015 version. I do this every year, this mobile app study. In ’16, the ’16 study was released in September, duplicated and higher number. I am a living proof of this data. I think you’re a living proof to this. The only apps I download are new calendars which I download and delete like a crazy person because they’re not good enough and games. I download game here and there and I’m legitimately down to twelve apps on my phone.

[00:24:01] Dan: Well, my friend. I think this is an important fact. I don’t think a lot of people know this. I’m not as young as you think.

[00:24:09] Adam: [laugh] You sound youthful.

[00:24:12] Dan: I do, I do. I do that well. I thank that youthfulness well.

[00:24:16] Adam: No crow’s feet.

[00:24:18] Dan: Yes, oh God bless you and obviously we’re not in the same room.


[00:24:24] Dan: But I don’t download apps that I never have and I probably never will because they know annoy me and I want a pristine mobile responsive experience. That’s what I want. That’s all I want. I don’t, you know what, if you have an app, God bless you, there’s a pop– there’s a population that wants them, maybe. But there’s a population of relatively well-to-do people with discretionary income that need a either QSR, the fast casual, and casual dining and fine dining and everything in between depending on circumstance that just wants a beautiful responsive experience. So if you’re gonna spend money, start the responsive experience.

[00:25:20] Adam: That’s actually not a friendly request. That is a mandatory. The mobile app, the mobile web is your friend. The mobile web has come a long way. Standards for the mobile web have evolved and they are awesome. There are some limitations as a brand, what you get from a user from the mobile web so there’s no loyalty number that can put in. It’s hard to cookie and it’s hard to track people, behavior, time but honestly, for most people that are experimenting at finding their brand thru google maps or thru proximity marketing, that’s the golden goose. They’re not going to download an app to try you for the first time but they will go to the mobile website and scroll it and thumb it once or twice, you know, see what’s happening. You might not collect all the data but if you’re on the fence, if you’re in pre-app world, I cannot stress strongly now. You may optimize your mobile site first and use it as a proof of concept for your app and figure out what works and what doesn’t.

[00:26:25] Dan: And by the way Adam, as you know I have a, praise God, a soon to be 22-year old son who’s going to be graduating in college in 8 weeks.

[00:26:37] Adam: [laugh] Only five more years of bills, I’m sure.

[00:26:39] Dan: [laugh] Or so, I’ve been told. But he might have the conversation about app downloads and you know, this is a kid who eats out a lot. He’s a college student. They cook at home for experiences with their mates and stuff like that but fundamentally, they’re out eating in typically QSR fast casual and so forth and you know, he doesn’t even have an app at his university. He does not use the app that his university provides.

[00:27:15] Adam: What, like the food court? Like the dining service?

[00:27:18] Dan: Yes. He just, he’s got his account, well, my account-

[00:27:22] Adam: Yes, right. [laugh]

[00:27:23] Dan: -connected to his box. They’re called something box and he presses the button because–

[00:27:32] Adam: – the manual card swipe.

[00:27:33] Dan: Yes. It’s over. I mean, he puts 20 bucks there and I think part of that out of respect to me, he doesn’t want put my abuse of the situation but at the same time my point simply is that, you’ve got the 50 something and the 20 something happens– from a similar behavior so I think, and this will be a whole another– this goes to our life stages theory that “You know what? Where are we in our life? What do we do and what are our habits?

[00:28:06] Adam: No, and if you’d read the book Hooked, there’s a gamification aspect to it. That there’s the Starbucks model where, there’s a gamification thing makes me want to use that app and makes me want to spend that money and then, it doesn’t make me want to do that. That McDonalds app, I don’t know, I don’t get any pleasure out of using the app versus payment with a credit card. I’ll just pay with the card. It’s taking up data.

[00:28:36] Dan: One of the thing I think that’s starting to really creep in all of this, you know I haven’t even talked about this much something I’ve been thinking lot though is, security. We haven’t talked about security in a long time and I got to be honest with you. I think security is going to probably be a huge impediment going forward and the whole app world or just even how we interact on the web with our devices.

[00:29:10] Adam: I think you’re right. I think we’re going to see a– I’m so bummed out by this, I think we’re going to see an avalanche.

[00:29:20] Dan: I’m sorry. [laugh]

[00:29:21] Adam: No. You hit me bad.

[00:29:23] Dan: They’ve been downer Dan.

[00:29:26] Adam: It’s funny. Independently, people have been having the same conversation in mind. I think what’s happening in the world, we are going to see an avalanche of ID thefts and data breaches in the whole– Oh, all my Starbucks points are gone and Uber’s. My Uber accounts been used in Moscow’s 60 times before I wake up. I think that’s going to happen if people are going to retreat from apps. Security–

[00:29:53] Dan: We’re on the southern, let’s go. Let’s retreat back to analog right now and we’ll be on the cutting edge.

[00:29:59] Adam: No, I’m gong to pay in Wampa.

[00:30:00] Dan: In what?

[00:30:00] Adam: In Wampa. I think the last thing– we’re at 30 minutes now which is longer than usual and honestly-

[00:30:09] Dan: I apologize.

[00:30:10] Adam: No, this is such a good topic, we could talk about this all day but for me the most important thing for brands to understand and brands really do not always understand this. If you and because I want to be sensitive to what it’s like to be inside a brand which we know. From the marketing side, you have a eight LTOs a year, 20 LTOs a year, whatever they are and you struggle to figure how we’re going to market each of those LTOs. From a technology standpoint you say, “Okay now there’s the period 14 LTOs got to make it. I have to change over all the technology requirements. Everything that has to happen in order to get a POS system and website and everything that works up and down and we’re going to get that all works right, have you witnessed this before?

[00:30:59] Dan: Always.

[00:31:00] Adam: Okay. Well, rolling out an app is twice that because maybe more, when you create an app, you are creating a product that is almost as big as your brand. If you’re not prepared to market the hell out of that thing, you almost like your brand. I’m comparing it to an LTO which should give those brands shivers compared to your brand. It’s that important. If you’re not prepared to roll out a marketing strategy, how are you going to get that app out there, awareness of the app, you’re going to need the awareness of that app up, like 80% of the awareness of your brand. You have to get people downloading. You have to have to have a cross preacquisition. All of with this something in food marketing, restaurant marketing. This is serious stuff. You are now competing with Uber. You’re competing with Netflix. This is ditch a sword.

[00:31:56] Dan: That is if you take anything away from this conversation today, it’s what Adam is talking about. We sit around the clients all the time and we here these conversations, “We need a nap or we don’t want an app.” whatever the case may be but regardless the ecosystem around what you do is as important as that strategic decision you make of should or shouldn’t, regardless. If you decide not to, you still have a marketing and maintenance obligation. If you decide you have a whole another responsibility to understand how to make that effective because it comes down to our life. Spend the time, that’s our point. That’s what we try to preach to the wonderful people who choose to work with us but stay focused. It’s not about should or shouldn’t. It’s about if we do, what are the implications? If we don’t, what are the implications? And march through all that and then if you go in regardless should or shouldn’t, go all in. Don’t question your decision, don’t start backtracking, blaming and checking just go all in and be that thing.

[00:33:30] Adam: Yes, let’s wrap it up with that idea that, listen everybody is going to have a mobile app at some point. We’ve laid out some challenges. To be honest with you, we have an outline that’s twice as long as what we’ve covered, maybe we’ll do sequel through this episode in coming weeks. You’re going to do it, right? Every brand is going to have one. Everybody brand needs one. People are expecting it. People are looking for an app but what we’re saying is, go in with your eyes open. Look realistically, everybody wants to say Domino’s, Chick-fila, Starbucks, Kununurra, right? Those are the good case studies but then when it comes to time to make their app, they look at the garbage that’s in our categories instead of comparing themselves to that.

[00:34:18] Dan: Bingo.

[00:34:19] Adam: You’re in competition with Amazon at that point. You’re in competition with Apple. When you have an app that has an icon on my home-screen, when I thumb that thing, it better be worth my time as a consumer when I open it. That’s not me, that’s the entitled consumer that honestly it’s spoiled by friction with timers and ones everything need to be flawless if that’s perfect.

[00:34:45] Dan: Yes. Listen good luck, be assertive. Make a decision, live with it, move forward. Thanks for listening. We really appreciate all the comments everybody’s been sharing. Share some more and challenges as Adam always likes to say, don’t hesitate to tell us how handsome we are, we like that too-

[00:35:07] Adam: We’re gorgeous.

[00:35:10] Dan: -and eat well.

[00:35:11] Adam: Thanks guys.

Transcriptions by Go Transcript.

Read these companion articles, too: The Pros. The Cons.

mobile app, digital, smart phone, meal, food, order
Technology helps bring your concept to more people, and more people to your tables.
Listen to the Episode.

The case against mobile apps for restaurant brands

The conversation inside every restaurant brand about apps is heated. There are technology providers, white label solutions and solo coders trying to sell your brand an app. Despite the glossy sales pitch, there are some things you should know about building in app. They definitely aren’t for everyone. Here, we lay out the case against building an app, and the ways to build traffic and sales without one. Want to hear the flip side? Read the companion piece that makes the counterpoint: The case for mobile apps for restaurant brands. On with the negative case.

An app won’t generate new customers alone

For every brand, driving customers into the restaurant is the lifeblood of your business. As marketers and operators, we tend to look at every new tool as if it can drive our business. It seems we are always one tool away from cracking our business wide open. Here’s the fact – no restaurant brand has successfully launched an app that wasn’t already having success. Vendors celebrate the successful case studies like Starbucks or Domino’s. Those brands were doing just fine in the traffic department prior to launching apps that were specifically designed to improve frequency and loyalty from their legions of customers. Brands think they can launch an app without including rewards or at least special offers are not being honest with themselves. If incentivized, intelligent discounting isn’t part of your plan, do not expect mobile apps to drive trial unless the app is truly ground breaking.

A growing number of mobile users report downloading zero new apps per month.

90% of mobile usage time is in apps.

This may sound like a pretty pro-app argument. The reality is that those apps are well established corporations investing billions into user acquisition and ongoing engagement. Congratulations, your brand will now be competing against Facebook, Google, Snapchat, Pandora, Netflix, Amazon, Apple and every media and entertainment company for screen real-estate. Think your brand is as much fun as Candy Crush?

Fewer app downloads every month

Despite the dominance in usage of mobile apps on smart phones, people are seeking out few new ones. According to comScore, new app downloads per user are trending down. In fact, a growing number of mobile users report downloading zero new apps per month. This means the battle for real estate on the home screen is getting more and more serious. How serious, half of all smart phone users fall into this zero app category.

Without serious innovation it won’t drive awareness or usage

Go ahead an try any five restaurant apps for brands you never use. They likely have the same feature set and he same set of flaws. If you’re not familiar with the restaurant, the app does little to drive a visit or a sale. People inside many brands believe the mere creation of the app will be newsworthy. It won’t. To break through with consumers, the app has to offer a truly interesting experience. That might mean a novel design or an integration with the store.

Are you prepared to market mobile apps?

In many cases, brands tell us the app is a solution to the problem of low awareness or increased competition. If you’re already challenged by marketing this new app will create a new problem. The app is a product of its own. Like any product it requires a marketing plan, a budget, support and maintenance. That’s a full-time commitment. Many brands looking to the app as a savior know how hard successful launching a string of LTOs can be. Marketing the app is no simpler.

Think social media blows up when there’s a problem in one restaurant? Wait until someone has a malfunctioning app in their hand. The app is not just an extension of the brand, a successful app can become the brand – and that is a double edged sword. Spend some time on the app store to see how competitive listings are for mobile apps. Seems almost as tough as marketing a restaurant, no?

Wide adoption of mobile web

Over two years ago, the number of smart phone users surpassed the number of desktop computer users. Not only are more people than ever using smartphones to browse and shop, but this tells us that more technology investments are being made to improve the basic infrastructure. The mobile web has arrived and is getting stronger everyday. This means that having a great mobile website will accomplish most of the things the average brand hopes an app will do. At least it will provide proof of concept that your customers want an app.

True, a website will lack some of the functionality for loyalty, but testing guest interest and understanding usage patterns on the web will allow you to design and build a more useful app. A mobile website will also allow for use on iOS, Android, Windows, Blackberry and any other platform out there and keep brands above the fray between mobile payment services.

As you can see, much consideration must be made before leaping into development of an app. The investment of time, resources and of course money are critical. Want a look on the bright side? Read the companion piece that makes the counterpoint: The case for mobile apps for restaurant brands.

Transcript of Food & Restaurant Podcast – Episode: Are You A True Digital Restaurant Brand?

Transcript of Food & Restaurant Marketing Podcast – Episode: Are You A True Digital Restaurant Brand?

[00:00:05] Adam Pierno: All right, welcome back to another episode of Food and Restaurant Marketing, I am Adam Pierno, your humble servant and host, and with me today is?

[00:00:14] Daniel Santy: Your arrogant servant and host Dan Santy.

[00:00:17] Adam: [laughs] We are back, we have a great topic today. We wrote an article about this a couple of weeks ago but this is something we’re talking about basically non-stop.

[00:00:28] Dan: Pretty much, yes.

[00:00:29] Adam: Pretty much. I don’t think it’s fad. Today’s topic, Is your brand really digital? Is the way you should pronounce that when you read it.

[00:00:39] Dan: Yes.

[00:00:39] Adam: What we want to know, today everything’s online, everything’s mobile, I have the power of a supercomputer in my pocket in the form of my phone. I can pretty much accomplish anything I want. Brands all think that they are on the leading age or doing ‘digital’ but are you really digital? Are you really understanding the principles of digital that make results happen, make things change and capitalize on behaviors that consumers are leaving every day.

[00:01:12] Dan: Yes, I think many many brands are way behind the curve in this area and I don’t know if they think they’re ahead of the curve, I don’t know if they think they are current or what the case may be, but the vast majority of brands really are behind the curve when it comes to the digital space, and part of that is, and that’s me being a jerk, part of that is the landscape, the ecosystem as I like to call it is in constant flux. So it becomes very difficult to really say, ” Hey, we’re ahead of the curve”.

A good friend of mine is a digital director at an agency, he’s hyper-critical of his shop, and that shop’s doing some pretty advanced things for their clients. It’s interesting to say people are behind the curve, I think I want to be careful when I say that, but I just want people to know that you should be changing with the ecosystem. That’s if you going to dive into digital, make sure you understand you’re going to have to change with the system.

[00:02:18] Adam: Yes, let’s just talk about something that you said is the curve. What do we think is the middle of the curve? What’s table stakes? What do you have to have to be considered even a current brand? We’ve been really digging into this topic across categories, beyond restaurants too but in other retail categories to understand this, but we see, there is are kind of a menu that should exist.

[00:02:44] Dan: Yes, I agree. Email marketing, I mean it sounds so mundane, but really if you think about it, those are some of your best customers because they’ve given you their data and said, “Yes, it’s okay to message me.” Staying current with your email marketing and make sure it’s tight, don’t over send, don’t send things that are ridiculous just to stay in front of the audience, again be relevant, we talk about that all the time. All these things you have to be very relevant.

[00:03:19] Adam: Right, so email is a great example. Having emails kind of table stakes, but having a great email program is being ahead of the curve, so having automated sense, having relevant personalized information that is thought out in catalogue and sent at the right time. That moves that email program, or even have an email program to sign up, put your card in a fish bowl to– ahead of the curve.

If you are doing it right and you have the right inputs in there and you can customize my message and say “You like this dish, here is a deal on that dish today, because we know you coming on Thursdays.”

[00:03:57] Dan: Right. Yes, and one last point on email marketing and that is, look at the analytics, see how they’re performing. When you pay attention to that, you can get rid of the under performing messaging and you can capitalize on the things that perform well. Now all of a sudden you’re again fine-tuning that messaging going forward and so your customers are going to appreciate that.

[00:04:25] Adam: Yes, look at the analytics is step one, do something with that is step two. We don’t have anything to say when people say, “Well we’ve got 50,000 subscribers,” and it’s like what did you do about knowing that? How big are you when you start segmenting and creating subgroups, and it’s not just our customers but this is our chicken customer, this is our beef customer, this is our dinner customer, this is our breakfast customer. Another thing that I think is kind of tables stakes, social media.

[00:04:53] Dan: Yes, unfortunately, no I’m just kidding. [laughter] It is, I mean there just billions and billions of interactions in social every day. You just need to capitalize on that, and we talked about it in a different podcast. The idea of putting up relevant content and then supporting it with paid social. It’s so critical for those of you who understand how the algorithms work, your organics reach is very low these days.

[00:05:29] Adam: It’s lowest, 2%, if you’re a brand, it’s over 500,000 followers.

[00:05:35] Dan: Yes. It’s a pay-to-play model, but it’s not terribly expensive and you can control it and once again measure it and test and optimize.

[00:05:45] Adam: But just being there, it’s expected value. As a consumer we know from our studies and reading other research studies that consumers expect whatever platform they use, they expect brands to be there and when they want to complain or ask a question or if they’re on kick and they want to ask a question on the brand, they expect you to be there, and when you’re not, they feel like there’s something missing about the brand.

That doesn’t mean you have to be there, but it means you should be thoughtful about where you are and how you reaching the majority of your customers and not just people in general where you can get Facebook.

[00:06:17] Dan: Exactly. The final one I guess for table stakes is your site, your website, and please please understand that it needs to be mobile optimized, it’s just so critical. Go to a restaurant brand, maybe I’m just trying to find the nearest location, or I want to see a menu, whatever, make sure I can look at it on my smartphone really easily and visibly.

[00:06:51] Adam: Yes, and on the phone I mean you should, this point site should be built for the phone first. We’re all retail, we want to drive customers, we want to drive traffic. Location should be the first thing that’s popping up, and it’s saying there’s one a quarter mile away from you, would you like directions? Here’s the menu to that store.

[00:07:09] Dan: Right, absolutely.

[00:07:09] Adam: Right? Not just a generic PDF, please no more PDF menus. Give me a menu that I can scroll, that customers can copy out an item out of it, share it and send it to somebody and say, “This is what you wanted me to order.” I mean make it easy for people to shop you with one thumb.

[00:07:26] Dan: Ask yourself, “what sites do you use on your mobile device and enjoy so much?” Then say, “what is it about those sites that make it a better user experience? Make it a simple user experience.” Make sure you’re thinking about that for your own site, or if you have someone building your site, which most people do obviously, or designing it, make sure they understand these fundamentals as well.

[00:07:52] Adam: Yes, it’s really funny that when we’re here talking on the Food & Restaurant Marketing Podcast, you don’t have to draw inspiration just from that category. Go look and see what other brands are doing. When we talk about social media, go look and see who is really doing a great job engaging customers or creating content or whatever you want to do, and borrow freely, don’t steal. Be inspired by those, then apply it to your own brand.

I think when you look at people that are doing really well in this space, Denny’s has taken it to a next level of really being on top of it, great community management for a brand that you wouldn’t think even have a community.

[00:08:36] Dan: Right. Indeed you bring up a community management that is so critical. If customers are contacting you or tweeting or posting on Facebook, whatever the case may be, make sure you’re responding. Even if you just private message them or whatever the case may be, that’s all they want, they want attention, they want somebody that say, “Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry you had that bad experience,” and vice versa, they might be tweeting, “Just had a great meal at Quiznos.” I don’t think I’ve seen that tweet in a while–[laughter] but reward that person too and thank them.

[00:09:16] Adam: Yes, and I think what gets ahead of the curve and community management is the voice, the tone. The speed of the reply is important but really, again going back to Denny’s, the way they have been winning customers is just through a consistency of wit and demonstrating that they’re connected to the internet and knowing what’s happening almost all the time. In fact setting trends. Let’s be honest 10 years ago for Denny’s, it was not a relevant brand.

[00:09:45] Dan: Absolutely.

[00:09:45] Adam: They’re forcing themselves to be relevant through conversations that are happening and getting picked up, and copied and pasted and tweeted and reposted across the internet. That’s a huge win for probably the three entry level people that are responding to tweets all day.

[00:10:02] Dan: Yes. Another pet peeve of mine is when the brand is trying to get you to tweet about me. Tweet about me and I’ll do something for you. I think that kind of tends to be disingenuous. This is off category but I made a hotel reservation just the other day and a like box came up after the reservation said, “Hey, like us on Facebook” or in one of the social– they made it very easy for me to do it– should I do it?
Have not stayed at this property, so I’m not going to tweet about something I haven’t stayed at yet. I thought it was a little too aggressive and then they emailed me that same message. Now that was a bit irritating.

[00:10:42] Adam: Over the line?

[00:10:43] Dan: Yes, I gave you my email address so you could send me my confirmation not so you could continue to market to me. I think we have to be wise about how you communicate with your customers and what you’re asking them to do. Like us on Facebook, well give me a reason why.

[00:11:00] Adam: Absolutely, another thing when we think about brands that really are digital. That really get it. Domino’s is a great example. They just keep innovating. They keep on going further, further and further with finding new ways to get people to order, engage with the brand in digital space. That’s great in and of itself. I can order with an emoji. That’s cool and it’s fun and I’m never going to do it. What’s even better is that it’s an idea that gets PR.

[00:11:30] Dan: Exactly, the holy grail of a great marketing campaign is when it does get publicity because it carries itself so much further. People are going to see the story, go look it up online. All of a sudden you’re getting eyeballs, you’re not getting from your traditional TV buyer or whatever you may be doing. That’s a great point. It’s not easy to do at all. We’re not naive about that, but think about that and think about the programs that you have and put them out to the press. Let the press decide if they’re newsworthy or not, but not doing it at all, it’s not going to get picked up.

[00:12:12] Adam: Yes, part of the thing is having a mind for that. If that’s your goal. Thinking about that as you’re looking at ideas and programs as they come up. It’s like, “Could we pitch this? Is this an idea that could get press or is it just an idea?” Ultimately revenue is more valuable, but if you can also get press, that’s great. I kind of suspect the order with an emoji is more of a PR play than the actual. I don’t think anyone thought, “Oh, this is going to increase sales by this percentage.” The shareholders did not give that a standing O with Q4 call.

[00:12:46] Dan: Indeed, I read a great– dovetailing just more of this digital advertising. Read a great Buzzfeed article just the other day. Essentially, I think it was the CEO had pen this particular column. He was talking about the ad industry and the fact that we’re taking linear advertising and putting it in the digital space and how flawed that truly is because the digital space is its own animal and taking what we’re doing in a print ad or television commercial or whatever to try and make it fit into the digital realm is backwards. I couldn’t agree with him more. You’re going to be in that space make sure you think about how those ads, those ad units, the native advertising, whatever you’re doing is going to live with those publishers so that you could put it there in a meaningful way.

[00:13:49] Adam: Absolutely, banner ads are mostly a waste of time and that’s the exact meaning of is your brand really digital. Well, we have a display program or we run pre-roll. At least pre-roll tells your story. Video is powerful but really plugging in and understanding how people use digital, how they use mobile and creating a message that connects that relationship and a consumer creating that beautiful triangular value. That’s what real digital brands are doing. Domino’s order with an emoji, pizza tracker and all those things it just keeps on piling on and making it stronger and stronger.

[00:14:30] Dan: Agreed. What’s your take on apps, Adam? I know you have a pretty strong opinion about the app world. Should every brand have an app?

[00:14:41] Adam: No. I was actually with comScore a couple years ago. It was the late ’14, might have been early ’15 released the stat that said that monthly average app downloads had gotten to zero. [Editor’s note: It was actually September 2016] That people were just downloading fewer and fewer apps per month.

[00:15:01] Dan: I remember you bringing this to me.

[00:15:03] Adam: At its peak, it was 11 a month or 16 a month or something. This was across a general age group so it wasn’t specific to any demos. I’m sure there’s tweens out there that’s still downloading.

[00:15:13] Dan: Plenty of apps.

[00:15:14] Adam: Yes, and since I read that, I really have been paying attention and picking up people’s phones and looking at their phones and seeing what apps they have, looking for ideas. I’m down to two pages and maybe generously, maybe I have 25 apps on my phone. I don’t want to join the conversation with your brand. I eat a lot of QSR, a lot of Fast Casuals. I eat a decent amount of Casual Dining still. I’m probably the last one.
I don’t need an app unless there’s a value to it and I don’t need a coupon. It’s like I have the Delta Airlines app on my phone because it serves a really good purpose and does it in a really good way when I travel.

[00:16:00] Dan: I think what you’re talking about there, Delta is a great example and that’s function. It’s an important function. You’re simplifying something for me [unintelligible 00:16:12] to your point that the app has enormous value. I would think really long and hard about an app but I think is better, that is what we were talking about earlier in creating a pristine mobile web experience for your brand of whatever that may mean for you.

That is probably money better spent than trying to invest in an app because what people forget about the app. Now you’ve got to get people to download it so all of a sudden you got to spend marketing dollars promoting your app to get people to download it so hopefully, they’ll use it and now you’re not using those same. You’ve diluted your marketing budget when you could have been using that to be doing mobile advertising or SMS advertising whatever the case may be.

[00:17:02] Adam: That’s it, you nailed it. We talk about it when we were working with brands. We tell them if you’re committed to this you’re creating another product. Would you rather promote a day part or this app? Because now you have to pull people into this ecosystem to get the ROI out of it. Maybe, you might. I think you’re dead on, having a more powerful website is more important because then when it’s on my mind and I pull it up, I get the experience I want versus now the restaurant, your locations.

You’ve given up POP space to try to get people to download this app that they probably don’t want or they download it to get the coupon or whatever you’re incenting them with and then they delete it or they keep it and it’s on page nine of their phone and they never look at it again. Is that valuable? I don’t know. It’s debatable.

[00:17:53] Dan: It’s such a competitive space and I take your point, why do you have so few because so many don’t provide value. Why would I load up my screen with these things and never use them and I bet if you track your behavior of the apps, you do have it’s probably something like 80 20, 80% of your users have 20% of the apps you have on your phone.

[00:18:22] Adam: I’m sure. It’s probably Mail, Twitter and whatever game I’m playing. It’s those three things. You definitely hit the nail on the head. Delta as an example, I also have the Southwest app. Those make traveling easier. I can get the boarding pass. I don’t have to print anything if I’m on the road I just pull up that little QR code is the only place–

[00:18:46] Dan: Change my flight if I have to.

[00:18:48] Adam: Right, makes traveling easier, makes it simpler and so I keep those things on my phone. But does a restaurant app, how is that going to make my life easier if it’s for– is an Applebee’s app going to make my life easier?

[00:19:02] Dan: No.

[00:19:03] Adam: Is a Buffalo Wild Wings app? How will it improve the experience? I guess–

[00:19:08] Dan: No at all. [laughs] In our opinion.

[00:19:11] Adam: If I was a weekly customer and it gave me a coupon and let me order every week or predicted or did something. It reminded me, “Hey it’s time for your weekly–.” I don’t know. I don’t think I want that either, so why are we doing it. You’re paying for a location finder in most cases.

[00:19:26] Dan: Indeed. Well, here’s the next big subject that everybody’s talking about is data. Why is it crucial? Why is data so crucial and have the publishers in the world who are talking about data, ruin data by referring to it as big data which I think makes people go, “Oh man crap, what I’m I going to do with all this information,” because there is a lot of information available to us, but what information is really meaningful.

[00:20:01] Adam: You said it. Everybody’s talking about it but nobody is saying anything. It’s just like big data is really powerful. The brands that are truly digital brands know how to employ this data. They know what data they’re trying to collect. They have a precision about it. They’re smart and they have a plan for what they want to learn.

Start with a hypothesis. If you want to be a digital brand, figure out what you want to learn, and then say, “Okay. To do that, I need to capture this data.” We work with brands a lot on this particular aspect of how do we better know your costumers? what data do we need to collect?

[00:20:37] Dan: Exactly, and make sure, Adam said this earlier in the podcast, analysis. Analysis. That’s the important thing. It’s one thing to collect the data and that’s its own infrastructure need, to make sure you can actually collect data on what your costumers’ behavior is. Second, is to analyze that. Then third, of course, is to make conclusions and recommendations on and how’re you going to act on that analysis.

I think we miss that piece of the puzzle all too often. With as much data as there is today, it still kills me when I hear a brand say things anecdotally. Well, that didn’t work. It’s like, “Can someone please give me the analytics on that?” What does that mean? Does that mean zero people did whatever it was we wanted them to do? 10% did, and we usually want a 50% of that activity rate, whatever. I get so frustrated because I know the data is there to– maybe there to validate that it didn’t work, but let’s define success, let’s define failure.

[00:21:47] Adam: Yes, amen. I know we’re on the same page about this one. I think when you’re talking about measuring success versus failure and there’s a lot on the line. If you’re a public company, there’s a lot on the line between shareholder value. But for private companies too, there’s jobs on the line, there’s locations on the line. This stuff really matters. If we’re talking about measuring the difference between success and failure, one thing we are obsessed with is attribution.

If we have a campaign that’s about- let’s make it about a day part, so everybody’s launching breakfast right now, that’s the craze. What I would love to look back at this in 18 months and see who still has breakfast. What is really driving breakfast traffic? Which piece of your digital campaign is really working and doing that? Knowing that and going from the top end, so we did this native video series with a breakfast chef, and now breakfast is up 10%. Well, what percentage of those people went deep in the funnel and clicked and did something that you know they used a coupon and they went to your store.

[00:22:48] Dan: Agree because usually in a situation like that where you’re adding a day part or a whole new menu and set of items that are not typical to your brand, your regular costumers are going to try it. Digital lose a lunch over a breakfast a trip, so I think you’re absolutely right, Adam. Attribution is king because, again, that’s the thing that’s going to tell you what’s working and what’s not.

[00:23:20] Adam: Yes, you have to be able to track back. The last bit of this is actually going inside the store. We talked about Domino’s that has great tech to get me to order, and they don’t have an in-store experience to speak of, but Panera has added kiosks on which customers can order, customize their order, choose your sandwich, choose your soup, whatever they’re doing, and they go sit down wait and someone brings it out. It’s essentially a swap out, one for one, with a clerk versus this kiosk.

McDonald is also been testing it with the ‘your way’ platform that they did away with, but they kept the kiosks. Those are digital innovations that make sense for the brand. The digital menu boards are not.

[00:24:09] Dan: [laughs]

[00:24:10] Adam: That does not make you a digital brand. The Ziosk-

[00:24:13] Dan: I love that analogy.

[00:24:15] Adam: the Ziosk table-side tablet that sits on the table at Chili’s, also does not make you a digital brand.

[00:24:25] Dan: Not at all. I couldn’t agree with you more. I think that that example you’re giving, again, no different than the app that Panera kiosk is serving a really important customer experience, and that is speed of service. I don’t have just talk to somebody, I’m used to working in this environment, especially, all them- Forgive me for saying it, Millennials, Gen Z, who grown up with technology, they’re very comfortable with it. If you’re going to do that, though, make sure, again, that user experience is a stellar.

[00:25:00] Adam: That right there, the user experience, is what separates the digital brand from the not digital brands. The brands who are saying, “We’re digital. We have digital menu boards. We bought Ziosks for the table.” No, you put a TV on the table.

[00:25:13] Dan: [laughs] Right.

[00:25:15] Adam: Now you have distracted guests. You’ve actually broken the table experience when two kids fight over the Ziosk, or one person is consumed with a game and the other three people are eating. That doesn’t make the experience better, that’s what- I guess it took us a long time to get to this, and it’s not in our notes but- or the article, does your use of digital make your brand better? Does it make the experience better?

[00:25:42] Dan: Yes. I can give you another one that’s a pet peeve of mine, and this is at Fine Dining. Typically, I think some casual diners do this, but please don’t put your wine menu on an iPad.

[00:25:54] Adam: Oh God.

[00:25:55] Dan: I’ve got to scroll and scroll. I mean this is not the experience I want. I want to look at wine menus, I want to turn that page, that’s a bad experience in my opinion.

[00:26:08] Adam: There is something about–

[00:26:08] Dan: It serves no function except that you don’t have to print wine list anymore.

[00:26:13] Adam: But you could print a one-page wine list, it doesn’t have to be fancy. There’s something about the tactile flipping the page and it doesn’t have to be in a book, but- I agree. It’s especially weird on a Ziosk. I don’t want to pick my rosay from a computer screen and be like, “Oh, how about Rose number 91.”

[00:26:31] Dan: Yes, the waiter is standing over me and he’s just, “Would you like bold flavors or you like sweet.” And I’m like, “Go, please go away.” [laughs]

[00:26:40] Adam: That’s not making the experience better-

[00:26:41] Dan: No.

[00:26:42] Adam: -it’s making it awkward.

[00:26:43] Dan: Exactly.

[00:26:44] Adam: Super effing awkward.

[00:26:46] Dan: Well, I think we hit the digital realm here, that’s for sure. I love talking about digital because it is ever changing.

[00:26:55] Adam: Absolutely.

[00:26:56] Dan: That’s for sure. This won’t be the last time.

[00:26:58] Adam: Even by the time we record this, to the time we publish this podcast episode, a lot of things will change. Thank you for joining us. Because Dan and I are both extremely digital people, you can use the electronic mail to reach us. or adam@foodandrestaurantmarketing or you can hit us on the Twitter, @F&RM is our Twitter handle. Visit the website. Please subscribe to the podcast if you like what you heard, or if you hated what you heard, subscribe anyway. All right, thanks a lot.

[00:27:30] [END OF AUDIO]

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Listen to the episode: Are You A True Digital Restaurant Brand?